On 09/27/2009 02:32 AM, David Banes wrote:

Hi,

First of all, my apologies. I just finished reading the chapter on
humour in the book "Native English for Nederlanders" and tried to put it
to practice in my original posting. I think I should suggest the author
politely that his remarks on irony were inadequate.

> I've been in IT security R&D for 20 years and can say that the crims use
> whatever protocol will get the job done,

And that is a big compliment for XMPP: it gets its job done, whatever
the job is...

On 27/09/2009, at 6:59 AM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:

> http://www.rsa.com/blog/blog_entry.aspx?id=1525
> http://www.rsa.com/blog/blog_entry.aspx?id=1515

In matter of facts, it is this one:
http://www.rsa.com/blog/blog_entry.aspx?id=1520

> Hold it. Now that the unsuspecting user has visited a fraudulent
> website, anything is possible! The criminals could use XMPP, SMTP, HTTP,
> IRC, or whatever they want at that point.

Correct, and as I stated above, it is a compliment for XMPP that it is
the technology of choice for both creating a webchat and for real-time
distribution of data.

But what struck me most, was the explicit mentioning of jabber (and not
XMPP!) as the technology behind the scenes. In most cases the news
articles don't care about the technologies behind the scenes of a trojan
and just talk about its functionality. (Like some other articles on this
case did).

> There is nothing particular to XMPP in these attacks, other than the
> fact that the criminals are using a chat interface and then sending
> information through an XMPP server that they have installed on their own
> machines. These attacks are not being perpetrated against Jabber users,
> but against regular older Internet users via fraudulent websites, with
> XMPP as an information transport.
> 
> There is nothing we can do about this kind of attack.

No, we can't prevent these attacks. But IMHO they are a concern for the
XMPP standards foundation. One of the factors that gave IRC a bad name,
was its use by botnet herders. Nowadays any IRC-server is suspect.

For me the news was not XMPP doing something (illegal or not), but
Jabber (and not XMPP...) getting 'bad press' like this.

If we have any possibility to avoid XMPP/Jabber getting a bad name like
IRC did, we should do so. One way of doing so, might be generating
'good' press about XMPP's security features. An other way might be to
differentiate clearly between the protocol, the public Jabber network
and private applications of the protocol. A case like this, would then
have a much smaller impact on the public image of XMPP/Jabber.

> However, we might want to look more seriously at XEP-0165 so that we can
> help prevent similar attacks over the real XMPP network.

Proactive working on things like XEP-0165 can indeed help with
controlling the possible damage of illegal use of XMPP. It might lessen
the damage when the day comes that the public jabber network is a big
time target for things like identity theft. It might also help by
showing that insecurity is not a feature of the protocol but that the
insecurity is a result the way the protocol is applied.

best wishes,

Winfried

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