On Mittwoch, 23. April 2008, Sergey Chernyshev wrote: > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 2:23 AM, Markus Krötzsch > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > On Dienstag, 22. April 2008, Sergey Chernyshev wrote: > > > Markus, > > > > > > It's great news and I'll definitely be looking into RAP implementation > > > > for > > > > > integration with other tools we use! > > > > > > I have a couple of questions regarding the iCal and SMWRegistry though: > > > > > > - Why do you use this strange encoding for the queries and other > > > things in RSS/iCal URLs? it seems that you replace % with - which > > > > makes > > > > > it harder to interpret or create. I wonder what's the reasoning behind > > > this, why can't you just use regular url encoding? > > > > There are multiple reasons. The main reason is that we want to create > > internal > > links in MediaWiki to the query special page. Now if we would use % > > encoding, > > then MediaWiki would expand that in links to create symbols that are not > > allowed in links. You can try the query link: > > > > [[Special:Ask/%5B%5BCategory%3ATestpage%5D%5D]] > > > > (query "[[Category:Testpage]]") > > > > Another reason is that we use this as a common encoding in all contexts > > that > > occur in SMW. Now in RDF/OWL, URLs do alse occur as XML entities, and % > > is not allowed in such entities either. > > I see. Maybe there should be some easy way to create RSS links - I use them > with FeedBurner (a fixed set of links, which does not allow dynamic feeds > by topic, for example) and they were pain in the neck to create,
Do you use queries to make them? They are surely not meant to be created by hand! We cannot not promiss long-term-support for URLs that cannot be created by any part of SMW (which still might happen to work now). > also I had > to hide all the complexity behind mode_rewrite rule (actually Apache > freaked out on this URLs too so I did it on my reverse proxy I use) because > FeedBurner failed to understand these long URLs. I see that it is a long URL, but it contains no uncommon symbols or anything. What was Apache's problem? > > It brings the question of savable queries - I wrote about this idea in > context of performance if you remember. In two words, it might make sense > to create special namespace for saved queries - where each page will define > a query and then that page serves as a name shortcut that can be used > instead of the full syntax. I use this approach in my Widgets extension: > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Widgets - SMW can use it in various > places, e.g. as argument to {{#ask}} (instead of full query), as arguments > to RSS/iCal and other exporters and so on. This will relief developers from > URL issues (and also as I mentioned in last post, might be usable for > restricting querying functionality if combined with namespace permissions). > > Let me know what you think - I'll be happy to discuss in more detail if > needed. I think that would be feasible, but I also hear concerns from people saying that SMW gets too large/complex. I am not sure what would be best. Another option for short URIs would be to create an internal ID for queries that is then used instead of the lengthy query in URL parameters. That would also be useful for caching query results, but it does not have the extra control feature (namespace permission -- btw. how would I best do that? We still did not open talk pages on s-mw.org :-( ). On the other hand, it safes you a namespace, and adding a namespace for queries that are then transcluded is always possible anyway if that kind of control is desired (this just fails for Special:Ask, but again the cached query ID would solve that too). We would just need to restrict SMW queries to certain namespaces. > > > - SMW Registration is done by parsing Special:Version as I understand > > > > > - why not to create an RDF export of the statistical data that your > > > service can consume in addition to the base data in Special:Version? I > > > understand that old version will not contain it, but there are lots of > > > other useful data that can be extracted and why not to use best > > > Semantic format to do that? The project is called "Semantic" MediaWiki, > > > right? ;) > > > > We do :-) But that feature is only available since 1.1, hence we check > > Special:Version to be able to register also older SMWs. But all the > > additional information (e.g. page count) comes from > > Special:ExportRDF?stats. > > It would otherwise be very hard to parse this data from > > Special:Statistics in > > all languages. > > Perfect! Now everyone can create a tool for visualizing SMW statistics. Well, the data in there is still rather restricted. But, yes, in principle it would work. By the way: this is also the page that one gets when crawling Special:URIResolver with a caller that requests RDF (content negotiation). So it is kind of the "main page" for RDF spiders. > > BTW, how do I get > http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:SMWRegistrypage as RDF? > with seeAlso links to specific feeds for each wiki? Right now: not at all. This service is currently very basic, with just enough functions to get things started. We will consider adding better interface features once we have some reasonable amount of wikis registered. Do you have anything in mind for working on these semantic wikis? We can supply you with information about the current registrations (if you promiss to be nice to them ...). > > > > I'll definitely try to upgrade TechPresentations, although first I'll > > > > need > > > > > to make sure that the rest of SMW extensions work fine. > > > > OK, great. I think the leap from 1.0 to 1.1 is not so large regarding > > internal > > stuff, so I am confident that no issues with extensions arise. > > TechPresentations of course cannot be registered anyway, since it blocks > > robots (btw, the SMW Registry robot should understand the ALLOW clause in > > robots.txt ;-) > > I actually added it to robots.txt and will probably allow Special:ExportRDF > universally. Great! > > > I will soon (today) create another minor release since we spotted some > > problems with the 1.1 ICalendar export on various systems, which we fixed > > right away. > > OK, I didn't upgrade to latest SMW yet, but I definitely plan it for near > future. Is there any way to roll-back SVN easily? None I know. But copying the current directory SemanticMediaWiki to SemanticMediaWiki_backup before svn updating is always an option. > I know you use > WikiMedia's wiki and they don't encourage tags or branches, but it might be > very useful to be able to roll-back somehow. Maybe it's worth posting a > timestamp for each release so it can be used for checkout? Yes, maybe we should do that. SMW 1.1.1 corresponds to revision 33778. Not sure for 1.1 (but the changes there are really minor -- the main incompatibility is that the iCal URLs changed, so early upgrade for iCal users is certainly encouraged). Markus > > Sergey -- Markus Krötzsch Institut AIFB, Universität Karlsruhe (TH), 76128 Karlsruhe phone +49 (0)721 608 7362 fax +49 (0)721 608 5998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www http://korrekt.org
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