On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 12:01 PM, Markus Krötzsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> [skip-skip]
> > I see. Maybe there should be some easy way to create RSS links - I use
> them
> > with FeedBurner (a fixed set of links, which does not allow dynamic
> feeds
> > by topic, for example) and they were pain in the neck to create,
>
> Do you use queries to make them? They are surely not meant to be created
> by
> hand! We cannot not promiss long-term-support for URLs that cannot be
> created
> by any part of SMW (which still might happen to work now).
I do them manually by hand after reverse-engineering of SMW code (this is
the only way I can provide it to FeedBurner, right?), so it'll be great to
know when this syntax gets updated.
> also I had
> > to hide all the complexity behind mode_rewrite rule (actually Apache
> > freaked out on this URLs too so I did it on my reverse proxy I use)
> because
> > FeedBurner failed to understand these long URLs.
>
> I see that it is a long URL, but it contains no uncommon symbols or
> anything.
> What was Apache's problem?
I don't know what Apache was complaining about, but I coudn't create a
mod_rewrite rule for it in 15 tries so I gave up ;) In two words, "raw"
parameter is already encoding stuff, then Apache has regex callbacks encoded
in similar way and I couldn't figure out a way to escape everything up
properly.
> It brings the question of savable queries - I wrote about this idea in
> > context of performance if you remember. In two words, it might make
> sense
> > to create special namespace for saved queries - where each page will
> define
> > a query and then that page serves as a name shortcut that can be used
> > instead of the full syntax. I use this approach in my Widgets extension:
> > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Widgets - SMW can use it in
> various
> > places, e.g. as argument to {{#ask}} (instead of full query), as
> arguments
> > to RSS/iCal and other exporters and so on. This will relief developers
> from
> > URL issues (and also as I mentioned in last post, might be usable for
> > restricting querying functionality if combined with namespace
> permissions).
> >
> > Let me know what you think - I'll be happy to discuss in more detail if
> > needed.
>
>
> I think that would be feasible, but I also hear concerns from people
> saying
> that SMW gets too large/complex. I am not sure what would be best. Another
> option for short URIs would be to create an internal ID for queries that
> is
> then used instead of the lengthy query in URL parameters. That would also
> be
> useful for caching query results, but it does not have the extra control
> feature (namespace permission -- btw. how would I best do that? We still
> did
> not open talk pages on s-mw.org :-( ). On the other hand, it safes you a
> namespace, and adding a namespace for queries that are then transcluded is
> always possible anyway if that kind of control is desired (this just fails
> for Special:Ask, but again the cached query ID would solve that too). We
> would just need to restrict SMW queries to certain namespaces.
I think I'm talking about page names in separate namespace to be that query
ID, otherwise how will you define a query? in LocalSettings.php? it'll be
too hard to maintain and will defeat the purpose. Pages from that namespace
will not be really transcluded, but used as a source for data to {{#ask}} as
it is for {{#widget}} in Widgets extension or to Special::AddPage in
Semantic Forms, for example.
You can check source for Yahoo! Video extension to see what is really within
<includeonly></includeonly> tags:
http://www.techpresentations.org/w/index.php?title=Widget:Yahoo_Video&action=edit
> > - SMW Registration is done by parsing Special:Version as I understand
> > >
> > > > - why not to create an RDF export of the statistical data that
> your
> > > > service can consume in addition to the base data in Special:Version?
> I
> > > > understand that old version will not contain it, but there are lots
> of
> > > > other useful data that can be extracted and why not to use best
> > > > Semantic format to do that? The project is called "Semantic"
> MediaWiki,
> > > > right? ;)
> > >
> > > We do :-) But that feature is only available since 1.1, hence we check
> > > Special:Version to be able to register also older SMWs. But all the
> > > additional information (e.g. page count) comes from
> > > Special:ExportRDF?stats.
> > > It would otherwise be very hard to parse this data from
> > > Special:Statistics in
> > > all languages.
> >
> > Perfect! Now everyone can create a tool for visualizing SMW statistics.
>
>
> Well, the data in there is still rather restricted. But, yes, in principle
> it
> would work. By the way: this is also the page that one gets when crawling
> Special:URIResolver with a caller that requests RDF (content negotiation).
> So
> it is kind of the "main page" for RDF spiders.
So http://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:ExportRDF?stats is being
the RDF representation - which page though?
http://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:URIResolver/Special:SemanticStatistics?
or
http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:URIResolver/ itself (I see
http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:URIResolver/#wiki as ID within
the RDF output).
> > BTW, how do I get
> > http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:SMWRegistrypage as RDF?
> > with seeAlso links to specific feeds for each wiki?
>
> Right now: not at all. This service is currently very basic, with just
> enough
> functions to get things started. We will consider adding better interface
> features once we have some reasonable amount of wikis registered. Do you
> have
> anything in mind for working on these semantic wikis? We can supply you
> with
> information about the current registrations (if you promiss to be nice to
> them ...).
I don't have anything specific in mind, but I think "eating our own dog
food" is good and popularization of SMW among SemWeb people will require
some good usecase and this one is quite good and generic - probably the only
data that is generic to SMW (plus, maybe, some bug reports and news...).
> I actually added it to robots.txt and will probably allow
> Special:ExportRDF
> > universally.
>
> Great!
It might be worth describing the robots.txt stuff to users on
http://www.semantic-mediawiki.org/ site - both for SMWRegistry and for all
RDF crawlers - e.g. that they need to allow crawling:
http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:URIResolver
http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:ExportRDF
Especially if users want to close all special pages from being crawled but
want these two to be crawled - since robots.txt standard doesn't have
"Allow:" clause - just "Disallow:".
And so on, plus if there was a link to the tool to verify that they did
everything correctly - do you know if there is any tool like that that gives
you the idea of what RDF crawler will see? similar to how W3C's XML/RSS/RDF
validatiors show you what will parser see?
> > I know you use
> > WikiMedia's wiki and they don't encourage tags or branches, but it might
> be
> > very useful to be able to roll-back somehow. Maybe it's worth posting a
> > timestamp for each release so it can be used for checkout?
>
> Yes, maybe we should do that. SMW 1.1.1 corresponds to revision 33778. Not
> sure for 1.1 (but the changes there are really minor -- the main
> incompatibility is that the iCal URLs changed, so early upgrade for iCal
> users is certainly encouraged).
Hmm. Backing up is good, but not always the case. Do you mind posting Change
history on the site - maybe similar to how it's done (by me) on:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Header_Tabs#CHANGES but with revision numbers
instead of links? Maybe with link to viewvc interface like this:
http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki?view=rev&revision=33778 - SMW
1.1.1
Or, maybe, just add it to
http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/RELEASE-NOTES?view=markup
Sergey
--
Sergey Chernyshev
http://www.sergeychernyshev.com/
Markus
>
> >
> > Sergey
>
>
>
> --
> Markus Krötzsch
> Institut AIFB, Universität Karlsruhe (TH), 76128 Karlsruhe
> phone +49 (0)721 608 7362 fax +49 (0)721 608 5998
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] www http://korrekt.org
>
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