Bernd Fondermann wrote:
I think I really well explained what was the goal of the "vote" and
made clear this is not a standard vote but a "vote-like". I used the
[VOTE] subject to attract replies.
To attract replies, you shouldn't use [VOTE], if you don't call for a
vote. Please take people seriously.
I really hope you don't think I don't take people seriously.
I used VOTE because this is like a VOTE but ASF never defined this kind
of vote, so I thought it was better to try this test (we are a
community, we should try to find solutions even without a lawyer) with
multiple vote-like questions as a way to collect as much as possible an
overview of our ideas.
Maybe I'm the only one confused but I see that is happened too much that
we thought we were in line with a goal while we were working on things
that have been vetoed (or criticized) when done.
Nevertheless, I think the thread you started serves a purpose by
collecting a "mood board" on some/most of the pending discussions. And
it certainly should not be intended as a way to shut down discussions.
I really hope this will stop religious threads that do not bring
anywhere. I hope that starting from the results of this "poll" (do we
want to call it poll?) we can have something more concrete to discuss about.
I asked to not start discussions inside the vote replies because I
wanted to be able to collect the results in an easy way. Imho
discussions will belong to the result comment thread.
Most of the topics are such long-termed endevours that it is impossible
to do a "bulk commit" now.
I agree, I never thought about a bulk commit.
Btw I think that we did a lot of discussions that are meaningless if not
contextualized in a long term goal or at least in a set of roadmaps we
could reach consensus upon.
What I agree on with you and I feel you are missing is the free way to
keep development going. I'd recommend to take one piece at a time from
the pile of todo's, recall or start some dev-discussions, then vote,
then implement and be flexible enough to accept peoples ongoing input.
Do you think I should have better started a single vote for each question?
I thought at solution for weeks.. unfortunately this my best shot now...
if anyone has better way to bring our trunk to life and increase
probability to have a James 3.0 in a real future I would really be happy
to use my time to partecipate.
I explained what the various -1..+1 votes should be used for.
That said, you should now explain your reply in the context of the
topic I started.
<snip/>
Btw I hope you will be more flexible about this discussion procedures
the next times.
Noel (whom you are responding to) like everyone else participating in
the project has the right and the duty to define "procedures". He
responded in a very flexible way, I think.
I only wanted to say that I opened a topic, I asked to reply with
decimal votes, he decided to change the rule. Imo this is not good:
other committers did understand my proposed way to vote.
I just asked flexibility about this. In the context of my vote/poll each
of the -1 by Noel is a VETO... you know, if everyone put so much vetoes
in a list we'll never reach consensus.
I stopped my activity on the james trunk because I feel out of synch
with the team, I'm simply trying to understand if there is still space
for my work or not.
I'm very confident, there is. But having people with different opinions
is not a burden, it's a gift. The community is growing, so there are
popping up more opinions, what do you expect? (with community growing
linear, opinions are growing exponentially ;-))
Bernd
It's all about consensus: I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything,
I'm collecting personal positions, to be able to understand where is the
space for consensus.
I feel I am the one that much more try to understand other opinions and
try to find consensus.
As an example you can read our last threads about configurations: I
tried to put out a list of possibilities, I declared my preferences, I
examinated proposals by other members, I made questions... thread died.
I know I'm hard in words, but 1) I never learned soft words in english
2) I'm just trying to be concrete. James needs much more concrete things.
Stefano
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