Hi Keith, > I do agree with you about the unfortunately limited > application of > systems theory to management in many businesses, > though ideas such as > those of Senge and Capra /have/ had some influence.
I think that systems theories as they are today are not sufficient. For instance there are disappointments in applying complexity theories to business even though some useful applications. Complexity theory remain symbol systems while living systems must consider both symbol and matter aspects - Pattee's semantic closure. > However, I can't agree with you about removing > iteration! Iteration is > not just caused by system errors or poor > communication of requirements, > it is caused by changing business needs and evolving > business processes. The ascendance of Agile methodologies in almost every field > bear witness to the effectiveness of bringing > interation to the > forefront and basing development practices around it. The issue is not much in iterations but in the context. If we talk about SW development agile methodology, then each iteration (normally one to four weeks) is a miniature project of its own and includes all tasks neccessary from requriement to coding to release a product. The problem is its theory and its Newtonian-Cartecian worldview. Cutting a rat in half we do not get two rats, we get a dead rat that loose all essential properties of a rat. Agile method cuts the rat fifty times? The more it cuts the more it cause problems (in name of chaning requirements). Agile method does not adapt changes rather it generates unnecceary problems (described as changing requirements) artificially and have to use more resources to fix them. I don't know if you are familiar with 75/50 rule. At 75% of planed schedule, only 50% of functionsalities are implemented. At this mark, it is the implemented functions that cause problem. At the mark of 75% of planned schedule, every added new feature cause a change in the baseline. The systems enter into maintenance mode unofficially. The shipdate is determined by the impact of change in baseline in adding new features. That's why coders spend 80% of their time fixing errors (according to NIST). Agile methods induce, not reduce this 75/50 maintenance mode for its mechanistic worldview! > In fact, making an analogy with living systems, > evolution is just a form > of iterative development, isn't it ... I would not say making analogy with living systems. A business is a living system, a third order autopoiesis. As such, business living system relates to other life forms (1st and 2nd order autopoietic systems) in form of homology, not analogy or metaphor. It will have iterative processes but not cut the project into miniature projects as the method of inquiry invented three hundred years ago by Descartes. Jerry > -- > > All the best > Keith > > http://keith.harrison-broninski.info > > Jerry Zhu wrote: > > >--- Keith Harrison-Broninski wrote: > > > > > > > >>Yes, exactly - though I assume by "doing things > >>right" you don't mean trying to build the perfect > >>system first time round (an impossibility for > >>various reasons), but rather trying to collaborate > >>/effectively/ in an ongoing system development > >>process. > >> > >> > > > >I do mean build the perfect system (not best but > error > >free system) first time round. Really. It is the > >"ongoing system development" that trubles me for > the > >waste on the predicable and avoidable errors. RUP > uses > >iterations to correct errors (ongoing systems > >development?) that takes 80% of developers' time > >according to NIST. > > > >I do agree with your "impossibility" for today's > >prevailing worldview and associated methodologies. > > > > >Herbert Simon (inventor of hierarchy theory, Norbel > >Laurate) proved mathematically that hierarchies > will > >evolve much more rapidly from elementary > constituents > >than will non-hierarchic systems containing the > same > >number of elements. Today's business approach is > >based on mechanistic worldview rather than living > >systems' worldview. The problem is neither in > >technical nor in the process but the worldview, our > >conception of the world. When our worldview is out > of > >date our behavior they drive is out of date. > > > >Best regards > > > >Jerry Zhu > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/service-orientated-architecture/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
