--- Steve Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >  1. One reads the human readable documentation from web page about
> the
> >  semantics of the data & operations in the service
> 
> So the people in the US, India, UK and Kazakstan all make different
> assumptions about what that actually means....

Sure.  Though, in Khazakstan, they'll shoot a dog and through a party
first. ;-)  [sorry borat on the brain]

> >  2. One downloads the schemas off a link from that documentation,
> and
> >  notes the URIs for accessing documents and/or to processing
> documents.
> 
> Manual step v automatic.

How is this automated?  In SOAP/WS, One has to know where to get the
WSDL.  Or the UDDI server to get the WSDL.  And one has to (typically)
generate proxies & data bindings out of that.  That's typically done
via an IDE (i.e. a tool-assisted manual step).  

I've worked with both kinds of toolsets (HTTP+XML and SOAP/WS) and I
don't see a material difference, except that WSDL generates an RPC
style interface typically...

> >  3. One uses an HTTP stack to access the URIs.
> 
> Manual step v automatic

Again, I'm completely at a loss as to how this is any more manual than
invoking an operation on a SOAP web service.

> >
> >  4. All returned documents are hypermedia -- i.e. have potentially
> >  dereferencable URIs baked into them.
> 
> Manual step v automatic (WS-*.... use BPEL).

Not in practice.  WS-BPEL 2.0 isn't even an approved standard yet.  

And there isn't, nor will there be, any implementation of BPEL, in my
experience, that "just works" without requiring significant manual
intervention to bind it to your specific runtime environment (whether
WSIF, JBI, SCA, etc.)

I have many other thoughts on why BPEL is stillborn, but this isn't the
thread for that ;-)


> >  5. Accessing further information in the system is accomplished via
> HTTP
> >  operations on the URIs retrieved from prior representations - it
> >  doesn't require specialized knowledge of a custom identifier
> system or
> >  set of operations on those identifiers.
> 
> It does require specialised knowledge of the specific custom
> identifiers created for that project

Not if they are URIs (unless one is using generative URIs).

> >  1.  If one moves a resource location, there's a built-in redirect
> in
> >  the transfer protocol.
> 
> Same as SOAP over HTTP, or indeed SOAP over JMS

The endpoint, yes.  A specific resource?  Not likely.

> >  2.  If a human wants a human-readable view of the information,
> they
> >  possibly can use a browser to access the same URIs (and get HTML
> >  instead of XML or whatnot, via content negotiation).
> 
> Similar to WSDL and a tool which can covert it to a graphic
> representation that is very easy to use.
> 
> Things that suggest people read XML documents are not IMO very good,
> XML is butt ugly and not something I'd like people to have to trawl
> through, particularly if using industry standard schemas.

I was suggesting they read something useful, like HTML.  Not XML (that
would be for an automated agent).

> >  3.  If new media types emerge to communicate the same semantics,
> one
> >  can specify & agree upon them without re-specifying the
> identifiers or
> >  operations.   (via content negotiation)
> 
> How do you do that?  An example would help me here.

In HTTP, one can provide an in-order list of preferred MIME media types
via the Accept: header.  

This assumes the server can support multiple media types for a given
resource, but it enables independent evolution of clients to
newer/preferred media types.

> >  4.  New participants can arrive without requiring change control
> on the
> >  other participants (since all information is referenced via URI).
> 
> Same as WSDL/SOAP, I can add loads of consumers of a service without
> impacting anyone, and a new producer can be added without impacting
> anyone either...

Fair enough.  I was referring to new participants providing specific
resources instead of a new participant that has to support the entire
WSDL interface. 


Cheers
Stu



 
____________________________________________________________________________________
Have a burning question?  
Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.

Reply via email to