+1.  I guess what triggered my posting was Gregg's use of the term
"sales toads".  Now I have known some fascinating and unintentionally
charming toads in my time, but I guess it was not meant as a generic
compliment in this instance.

There are two important things worth bearing in mind here:

(1)  Much as anyone might choose to hate/resent/envy salespeople in
general, they happen to be essential for generating the revenue that
allows your company to grow and you to survive and live well.  You may
choose to resent what you think is their excessive remuneration, but
bear in mind that if they earn a lot of money it is for a very good
reason.  Selling is not easy.  It is one of the most mercilessly
directly accountable jobs there is: no sales for whatever reasons
means no commissions and unemployment.  It also involves far more
tedium and hard work than most people realise.  Above all it requires
application, persistence, taking responsibility and resilience.  Try
working with the salespeople and not against them.  Hey! the
performance and satisfaction of both parties will improve!

(2) If you are a techy who believes in SOA and you want your company
to adopt SOA principles and practice, then you are going to have to
become a salesperson whether you like it or not.  This applies to any
sphere of your life where you have to persuade people to cooperate
with you (yes, including your social/sexual contacts).  As I mentioned
the hard choice between salesman and filing clerk is essentially about
attitude, not job roles.  Try it and see how a change of attitude can
change your life.  There are people out there who can help you in a
structured, professional manner.

Gervas

--- In [email protected], "Wedge Greene
\(FG\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  
> 
> Gervas' little story of salesperson or file clerk is quite true.  It
is not
> so much about rewards as about personality and attitude.  Even the
comment
> about bosses and their cars is a reflection of "sales competition".
 Selling
> is as much about competition and winning as about income and
commissions.
> But primarily, selling is about building relationships with those around
> you. (I ghost a sales newsletter and ghost wrote a sales and personality
> book just to learn more - even though I am a hopeless file clerk.)
> 
> Selling is a tough, stressful occupation often fraught with partial
failures
> and having to pick up and begin again on the next account.  Successful
> selling should be rewarded.  Now it is true that without the
developers and
> file clerks, they would not have the products to sell.  But it is the
> salespeople interacting with the buyers that set the value on what is
> developed.  It is not worth anything until someone is willing to pay
for it.
> 
> SOA is a marketing initiative as much as an architecture.  It is the
rehash
> of a lot of things.  This does not mean that it is derivative
because it is
> stealing from grid and NGOSS and web and Jini and service networks
and....
> It means that this marketing campaign for changing the way we build
software
> is succeeding, where the others did not.
> 
> Marketing is a necessary but perhaps evil thing.  It often means
taking a
> term that others have introduced and applying your meaning to it to
> associate your brand/product with it - stealing value (hence sex and
> shoes?).  This is happening today with SOA - Because the term SOA
has become
> valuable.  It is up to the members of this list to keep it SOA as
true to
> its roots and honest as possible,
> 
> __________________________________
> 
> Wedge Greene             Fine Grain Network
> 
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