Blogged on it http://service-architecture.blogspot.com/2008/09/doa-your-soa.html

Steve


2008/9/25 Steve Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> I don't think Rob is arguing that point.  You can start an SOA by
> identifying service in many different ways, the only really important
> bit is that your goal is the identification of services.  If you are
> trying to identify processes first, and then identify services that
> map to activities on the process then you are dong POA (IMO), if you
> are starting by identifying all the data and then identifying the
> services that you want to manage the data then you are doing DOA
> (IMO).
>
> Steve
>
>
> 2008/9/25 Dennis Djenfer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> Which constraint of the Service Oriented Architecture Style says that you
>> need to identify your services in a specific way? Why can't you start the
>> identification of services with processes? or business entities? or legacy
>> systems? or business functions? or something else?
>>
>> // Dennis Djenfer
>>
>>
>> Rob Eamon wrote:
>>
>> +1.
>>
>> Starting with data is a data/object-oriented approach, not an SO
>> approach. Data is important most certainly, but in SO the service is
>> king and that's where one should start. The inputs/outputs are driven
>> by desired capabilities of the service, not the other way around.
>> Identify the services first, then define the data formats and
>> semantics.
>>
>> Haven't we had several "data first" approaches in the past? SQL was
>> going to be the savior of the data-starved business person. OO (data
>> with behavior) was finally going to deliver the agility craved by
>> enterprises. Integration still predominantly focuses on replicating
>> data.
>>
>> The desire for data first is understandable I suppose. We have a long
>> history of "I just need that customer data" or "we need to send the
>> order data over to system X". This is still the
>> predominant "requirement" for most IT projects it seems. "Get that
>> data from there over to there."
>>
>> But SO is supposed to be different. There is data involved but the
>> focus isn't on just moving it around. The focus is on "what do you
>> need to do?" In an SO approach, the answer cannot be "I need to get
>> the customer data." Data access is not a "capability."
>>
>> An SO approach will redirect such "requirements":
>>
>> A: "We need the customer data from system X."
>>
>> B: "Okay, what are you going to do with it? What led you to the
>> conclusion that you need customer data from system X?"
>>
>> A: "Well we're doing this marketing campaign. We're sending direct
>> mailers to customers matching various demographics. We need system X
>> customer data to do that."
>>
>> IMO, even when folks say that they need access to data, they will
>> have started out with some "service", action or capability in mind.
>> They want to do something. They don't want the data just because it's
>> there.
>>
>> IMO, a data first approach undermines SO rather than promotes.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> --- In [email protected], "Steve Jones"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> This is where I disagree.  You need to know the capabilities and the
>> services first in order to the concern yourself with the data inputs
>> and outputs.  I completely agree that the definition of data formats
>> is important and that interfaces should be designed to be consumer,
>> rather than producer, friendly.  Dave says below that people are
>> getting it wrong by starting with "services or processes".  Maybe a
>> data centric view doesn't lead to Single canonical form, but it has
>> done when I've seen organisations take this approach.
>>
>> If you aren't starting with the services how can it be service
>> oriented?  Surely that would be a Data Oriented Architecture?
>>
>> To know where data is appropriate you have to understand the
>> services and the capabilities.  There are certain data reporting
>> elements (post transactional) where unified views make sense and
>> its important to understand those as well, but the important bit is
>> to first understand the services.  I'm not saying data isn't
>> important but that a view that says "start with the data, then work
>> up to the services, then the agile layer" implies that services sit
>> between a data view and a process view, something that only makes
>> sense in a technically oriented, rather than business oriented,
>> view of SOA.
>>
>> Data is important and you need to understand it, but starting with
>> it?
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
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>>
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