Gregg,

While I agree with your recommendation to focus on "why", I recommend
focusing on "what" way before you start thinking about "how".  And
you've totally lost me when you talk about moving end-to-end services
"into the SOA". That terminology makes it sound like a SOA is a piece
of infrastructure. (e.g., an ESB).

Anne

On 1/13/09, Gregg Wonderly <[email protected]> wrote:
> Anne Thomas Manes wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:35 AM, Steve Jones <[email protected]
>> <mailto:jones.steveg%40gmail.com>> wrote:
>>  > 2009/1/11 Anne Thomas Manes <[email protected]
>> <mailto:atmanes%40gmail.com>>:
>>  >
>>  >> Michael/Steve,
>>  >>
>>  >> If the definition of SOA is so simple and obvious, why is it that we
>>  >> get into heated permathreads whenever someone says something like "SOA
>>  >> = integration"?
>>  >
>>  > Because that is the detail, which is where we are saying the issue is
>>  > but also because its part of the subversion that some analysts and
>>  > most vendors have done deliberately. SOA = Technology.
>>
>> But that's just my point: The industry has not agreed on the meaning of
>> SOA.
>
> I'm not sure that there needs to a "meaning" as much as there needs to be
> conveyed the "purpose" and the "results".   Those two words, together,
> describe
> the "ideas" that provide the "meaning".
>
>>  >>
>>  >> What are people talking about when they refer to "their SOA"?
>>  >
>>  > Their Service Oriented Architecture? Well most of the time its the
>>  > pictures and architectural artefacts that define how their IT is going
>>  > to be delivered, sometimes its the physical realisation of that
>>  > architecture and sometimes its just because they've bought a product
>>  > with an SOA sticker.
>>
>> When people talk about SOA as a thing, they are talking about their
>> ESB. They might also include the applications that they've deployed
>> that communicate using the ESB. They are not talking about pictures
>> and architectural artifacts.
>
> When you make a statement like this, it feels loaded with personal
> perspective
> and generalizations that won't always be true.  This is why I keep saying
> that
> the "why" (purpose of SOA) and "how" (technologies that produce the results
> needed for YOUR SOA) need to be what is discussed, not the "what"
> (technologies
> that are often put in place as a solution looking for a problem).
>
> To put this in other words, we shouldn't say an SOA has web services, ESBs
> and
> browsers.   Instead we should say "why" as in, you should develop an SOA to
> help
> you abstract points of extension into services that can be reused by layers
> that
> will develop around your core services.  This provides a clean separation of
> responsibilities and provides points of integration that can be used
> throughout
> the life cycle of your systems to augment, replace and extend them.
>
> Then we would say let's look at what your business has for end to end
> services
> now, and decide how we can compartmentalize and manage the movement of those
> services into an SOA that will ease your business to make the changes that
> it is
> planning for the future.
>
> Gregg Wonderly
>
> Gregg Wonderly
>
> Gregg Wonderly
>

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