Hello Tim,
Mark Murphy and Jim Roepcke (at Tyrell), would be the ones to contact
regarding the decisions that went into building the OSX Installer, up
to and including the 2.1.2 release.
My role was with putting together the 2.1.2 OSX installer in
accordance with the conventions set by Tyrell in previous installers,
as Jim was unavailable to put together the latest installer due to
scheduling constraints.
And, for the record, I did propose some radical changes when I was
offered the job by Tyrell to build the 2.1.2 installer, and many of
my proposals were more in line with what you, Tim, expect the OS X
installer to be. However, the following reasons prevented me from
implementing my changes for the 2.1.2 release.
1) Consistency, consistency, consistency. Implementing a radical
change in an installer for a minor point release is a bad idea, at
least from a support perspective. BTW, this is also the reason why
Zope 2.7, not 2.8, was chosen for the 2.1.2 installer.
2) Tyrell subcontracted the work to me, so I had to comply with their
requirements.
And, just to comment on your recommendation to install Plone at /
Library...
If Plone is installed at /Library/Plone2, it would be completely
wiped out during a reinstall of the OS. This is not an issue for
Apple's install of Apache, Tomcat, etc. since those are bundled with
Mac OS X Server. However, until Apple decides to bundle Plone with
OS X Server, installing Plone at /Library is *not* recommended.
Knowing where stuff should be installed is a difficult issue, as
Apple doesn't really provide guidelines on where third-party server-
side software should be. The convention for client-side apps is at /
Applications, so that's the convention Tyrell has decided to stick with.
When you mention that, "as you see it", the installer should be
changed to comply with your recommendations, are those
recommendations based on documentation at Apple's website? If so, I
would love to see those docs. Please realize that I, and I'm sure
Tyrell as well, as received *plenty* of recommendations on where the
installer should place the files and folders that make up the large
software stack that is Plone, and most of them are not consistent
with your recommendations. So, if you need an installer that puts
the files where *you* want them to be places, my recommendation would
be to hire me, Jim Roepcke, or anyone else that has experience
putting together an OS X Installer for Plone, to build you a custom
installer that contains what *you* think it should contain.
Now, since there's a chance that future versions of the OS X
installer may *not* built by Tyrell, we would be free to implement
the OS X Installer that "should have been", and in that case, I
completely welcome your feedback on what should go into the installer.
And, for full disclosure, I am not affiliated with Tyrell in any way : )
- Kamal
On Mar 31, 2006, at 2:28 AM, Kamal Gill wrote:
Misguided chap? Ouch, that hurts! : )
Actually, for the record, the 2.1.2 OS X Installer was put
together to be consistent with previous versions of the installer,
built by Tyrell. If you have feedback or concerns about the
installer, please contact the good folks at Tyrell and voice your
concerns there, not here.
And If you have feedback on what a "proper" OS X installer would
be, I would be happy to hear it : )
Best regards,
Kamal
p.s. No offense taken
O.K., I retract that statement. But I have had several e-mails
with you concerning this, and you've pretty much stated you have no
intention of taking action on any of them. As I see it, the
installer needs to be changed as follows:
1) Pone2 should be installed to /Library, not /Applications. That
is where Apple has installed, Apache, Tomcat, JBoss, and
WebObjects. That fairly clearly shows that to be the location
server software should reside.
2) Make the Default site and other sites not require separate
rewrite rules. If for some reason this can not be done, clearly
document the need. In the several e-mail exchanges we had where
had the same issue the original creator of this thread had, you
never once mentioned that separate rewrite rules would be needed.
It was only through trying every possible combination of rewrite
rule and VHM location that I finally got it to work. I use
Apache2, not Apache1 on my server, so that may be why Daniel saw a
slight difference.
3) Allow for ZOE. The documentation I have read states that ZOE is
the preferred means of Zope communicating with ZODB. And al least
on of the products I want to use requires ZODB, as it has an
external process writing into ZODB; this is only allowed with ZOE.
There is much to like about the installer, and I do prefer using
it over manual install. I actually tried manual install, but ZODB
became corrupted after only one day of use. As this has not
happened with the installer Plone, I'll stick with the installer.
The installer makes it easy to add additional sites to the system,
other than #2 above. The script provided for this is a good
thing. Installing external Python products works in most cases,
with the provided script installing it into the special structure
created by the installer. I had one case where the installer did
not work for this, but did not troubleshoot to determine why. It
was a ctags product which was a bit old.
Anyway. I do appreciate Kamal's efforts with the installer. I do
realize how much work such things can take. Thanks Kamal.
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Kamal Gill - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.adaptivewave.com
Content Management Made Simple
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