RE: ShopTalk: Blades

[Childers, Tedd A]

Pat,   No reason to get all worked up about this subject.  Play what you want to play, but don't make asinine statements like; "I'm convinced that it's gonna be higher in almost every blade compared to EVERY cavity - blades have a much longer hosel and a waaay thinner sole than cavities, both of which would bring the CG up a significant amount.  Add the undercut cavities present in a lot of new irons, and I can't see them having a higher CG than a blade......; without presenting some data to back it up.  Tom Wishon has had a LOT of experience designing and testing heads (both blades and cavity backs), so I am quite sure he is speaking from experience with REAL data when he makes his statements.  Also, what possible motivation could Tom have to make false statements about this subject?   In my opinion, the pro's blades for several reasons, which are quite different from the one's you stated:   1.  They are good enough to play blades.  They see very little, if any, improvement in shot pattern from going to cavity backs because they hit the sweetspot >95% of the time anyway.  I'm quite sure they also lose feedback on mis-hits when the play cavities.   2.  They play blades because they think they should (everybody else is doing it).  Golf pros are ALWAYS looking for an edge, and if one player switches to blades and suddenly wins, or because Tiger uses them and wins majors like crazy, the guys who aren't winning all start thinking about switching.   3.  They play blades because they think forged clubs are better than cast clubs (see taper vs. parallel shaft argument), and most all blades are forged.  Certain OEMs are really pushing this now (i.e. Nike, Hogan, etc...).  Most golf pros can play well with any club they want, but when the pressure is on, they need to believe in the club they are using.  Whether that club design or material is really better or not is meaningless, they just have to BELIEVE its better.  Along this theme, players like Tiger who have won a LOT with a style/design of club are VERY reluctant to change, because they have confidence in that club.  Nick Price used to wear out the faces on his sand wedges before he would change clubs, and Tom Lehman didn't change the grip on his driver for about 4 years.  Some might also call these guys superstitious (Tiger always wears red on Sunday, Jesper's goofy hat, etc...).   I didn't really address the cast vs. forged question here, as I am assuming that most CBs are cast and most blades are forged.  To answer that question, just look at the most popular wedges on Tour (Vokey's and Clevelands).  Both are CAST, not forged.  If forged really does give better feel than cast, why would the best in the business use CAST wedges over forged.   In the end, you are obviously a very good player, who unfortunately is a Tiger/Duval/DL III wannabe.  Play what you want, but playing forged blades, Vokey wedges, special production Titleist drivers, Scotty Cameron putters, etc... will NEVER make you a pro.   Tedd     -----Original Message----- From: Pat & Laura Kelley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 1:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Blades Why I'm wasting my breath replying to this I'm not sure...  Except that this forum is becomming so full of BS that it's worse than a Harrison shaft Ad.    I guess Tiger, who grew up playing cavity clubs (Pings to be specific - didn't switch to blades until college), who has NO equipment contract for irons (can play whatever he wants) is a plain equipment moron for playing blades.....   More guys who play for their dinner are playing blades today than did 2,3, and 5 years ago.  Why are blades more popular now than before, when many of the younger guys were exposed to these, better cavity clubs at a very young age?????   And, upon more thought on the CG issue,  I'm convinced that it's gonna be higher in almost every blade compared to EVERY cavity - blades have a much longer hosel and a waaay thinner sole than cavities, both of which would bring the CG up a significant amount.  Add the undercut cavities present in a lot of new irons, and I can't see them having a higher CG than a blade......   PK  -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Tom Flanagan Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 1:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Blades The most common reasons I've heard over the years from average players using blades are:   1. "The guys on TV use them and shoot low numbers with them so that's what will make me a better player."   2. "I've had this set of (Staffs, Spaldings, McGregors, Hogans) for years. I only play a couple of times per year so why buy new stuff?"   3. "I'm a plus 2 and I need to work the ball. Can't do that with (Pings, Titleists, Callaways, etc.) as well as with blades. (An aside; when I ask; how come Tour players seem to do well with those clubs, hitting hooks and fades, highs and lows? The answer invariably is; well, they're pros.")   There are other reasons given but these seem to have been the most often heard.   I played blades for a long time. McGregor Toney Penna TP 64's, Wilson Staffs, and a set of Confidence forged blades. I was at the time handicapped in the 3 - 4 range. I bought a set of used Ping Karsten II's to give to one of my sons. However, after trying them out I kept them for myself. I played better than I ever did with the blades.   I think that whether a player is a plus 2 or a chop, modern design clubs will serve him much better than would any blade on the market. This is amply shown on the various tours every day. The perception that because Sergio or Jack or whoever is better with blade than he would be with newer, peripheral cast irons is an old wive's tale that should be put to rest.   TFlan     ----- Original Message ----- From: Graham Little To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 2:32 AM Subject: ShopTalk: Blades Gentlemen   I hear this story often. It's easier to "work" the ball with a forged blade. Personally, I've always thought forged irons were overrated. However, I can see some advantages for a better player. ie less off-set (is this the key?), power for on centre shots and being able to adjust loft and lie. I've never been convinced about the "feel" thing. Now, I realise that there's two issue here: ie blades and forgings   Can some of you better players explain why you think it's easier to work the ball? When they come in to see me I'd like a better explanation than the one I have now   Thanks Graham           LEGAL NOTICE Unless expressly stated otherwise, this message is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended for the addressee(s) only. Access to this E-mail by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not an addressee, any disclosure or copying of the contents of this E-mail or any action taken (or not taken) in reliance on it is unauthorized and may be unlawful. If you are not an addressee, please inform the sender immediately.