Harry, Wow! And I thought the value (to the customer) of HONEST ISO 9000 was dubious.
No cheers! DaveT ----- Original Message ----- From: Harry F. Schiestel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 1:57 AM Subject: ShopTalk: Inexpensive shafts / ISO registration > Hi Dave and Burgess > For a lot of companies ISO registration is not worth the paper it's written > on. > Just got back from Georgia, USA where I assessed a QS-9000 / ISO-9002 > company. > It got registered about 2 months ago and we found 66 opportunities for > improvement, > 35 Non-conformances, and 9 Major Non-conformances > and we were easy on > them. > Calibration of gauges was changed to appear to registrar that they were not > due yet. > Several parts they shipped had a history over 6 months of 90% out of > specification shipped. > Their quality mgr. couldn't argue an interpretation so he said they were > "registered", and > I damn near laughed out loud. One of their major depts/processes was > missing all documents. > In many cases, I'm sorry to say, 3rd party registration is a bought and paid > for relationship. > Many companies have people writing procedures and conducting audits and > fewer or no > people reducing variation and waste (or actively improving process and > product quality). > ISO is no guarantee of level of outgoing product quality. And no, I haven't > tried the Monarks. > In other words, BUYER BEWARE !!! > Harry F. Schiestel, CQA (Cert. Qtly Auditor and National Qlty Examiner) > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:owner-shoptalk@;mail.msen.com]On Behalf Of Dave Tutelman > Sent: October 11, 2002 5:40 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Inexpensive stepless steel shafts > > > Burgess, > We're 100% in agreement On ISO 9000. And I understand your "maybe". > > And no, I haven't tried the Monarks. > > But I have tried the Patriots, and wonder why nobody has mentioned them in > this thread. They aren't as inexpensive as the others, but they aren't as > expensive as the Rifles, either. In my limited experience with the Patriots, > they are remarkably similar to the Balistik -- which I believe was the > intent. And I like the Balistik, so I like the Patriot as well. > > Cheers! > DaveT > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Burgess Howell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 5:19 PM > Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Inexpensive stepless steel shafts > > > > At 03:48 PM 10/11/2002, DaveT wrote: > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: Burgess Howell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 4:16 PM > > > > > > > Have you tried the Tru Power Stepless from Monark? They mention > ISO9002 > > > > compliance on their site. Maybe the tolerances are better than the > Eltas. > > > > > >I have always been somewhere between skeptical and hysterical when it > comes > > >to ISO 9000 compliance. ISO 9000 was intended to assure quality, but all > it > > >does is assure adherence to some process -- whatever the manufacturer > > >decides is his/her process. > > > > I choose my words pretty carefully. You'll note that I did say "maybe" > > which implies "maybe not" as well. > > > > >I've exaggerated and simplified, but only a trifle. I've worked for > ISO-9000 > > >and non-9000 organizations. The ISO organizations certainly had a lot > more > > >formality in their process. Sometimes that led to better quality, and > > >occasionally to worse quality. The correlation was not really strong. > > > > Having gone through the ISO certification process 7 times in the last 9 > > years, I can vouch for what you say wrt quality. > > > > It seems to me that, from a 'grunt in the trenches' pov, ISO cert is > > primarily a system of *greatly* increasing the burden of the documentation > > process, and making sure everyone knows the correct catch phrases to > parrot > > when the ISO auditor comes by for a snap (wink,wink) inspection. > > > > Obladee, obladah... > > > > So, has anyone tried those Monark shafts? > > > > Burgess > > > > >
