Pat:

            I respectfully disagree with that. If what you are saying is true than the oscillation pattern would be the same no matter what plane the shaft is twanged in. I know that is not true. I have also plotted the path an unloaded shaft takes in the first full cycle and the return path is different depending on the location of the NBP or Spine.

 

Don Johnson

 

 

   

 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pat & Laura Kelley
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 5:49 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Harrison Spineless Technology

 

Dispite what you've shown the shaft does when it oscillates, the whole deal is irrelevent.  If you consider Alan's experiment, the club has hit the ball at the 1/4 cycle mark, where it returned on the EXACT plane that it was loaded in, regardless of spine position.  What happens after that 1/4 cycle is nice to show customers, but has nothing to do with the anything related to how the shaft works. 

 

Pat K

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Corey Bailey
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 1:56 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Harrison Spineless Technology

Alan:

Indeed, Pat Kelly’s comment regarding the direction of shaft loading is correct and your “Fun Experiment” supports that. However, neither addresses the potential for the random location of a predominant spine to affect the unloading of the shaft during the downswing. In fact your fun experiment, while an interesting demonstration in one of the laws of physics, actually supports the claims of those of us who go to the trouble to align shafts in the first place.

Here’s why:
Let’s use the premise of your experiment only add the variable of a prominent spine in the shaft being used for the demonstration. I would also suggest that the shaft under test be secured in a device that can be precisely rotated. Clamped in the chuck of a machinists lathe for example. Having located and marked the spine on the shaft, you can now observe any influence on the oscillation plane of the shaft as you rotate the shaft in a fixed position. What you will find is that as the shaft is oscillating (having been twanged in a vertical or horizontal plane) and you rotate it, you will force a momentary wobble in the oscillation plane. Or: momentarily forcing a flat oscillation plane onto an oval. Naturally, the oscillation plane will return to the original state after a few cycles (wobbles) demonstrating “conservation of momentum.”

For example:
We have marked the spine on a shaft and we mount it in the lathe chuck with the spine located at 9 O’clock. When the shaft is twanged in a vertical plane and rotated clockwise, a momentary oval will occur in the direction of rotation. The same will happen when the shaft is rotated counter-clockwise.

So indeed, the spine, if prominent enough, can have a momentary affect on the unloading of the shaft. If you were to use a shaft with prominent spines 180 degrees apart (us "spine geeks" refer to this as a type 2 shaft) you would be able to easily see the effect. Type 2 shafts tend to behave more like a Venetian blind when it comes to bending in line with NBP or against the spines.

One really does not have to go to all this trouble to see the influence of manufacturing anomalies on the bending properties of a golf shaft. Simply locate the spine(s), clamp the shaft at the butt end, twang it, and observe the oscillations. The oscillation plane will start out in a straight line and wind up as an oval. As you rotate the shaft, clamp it, and repeat the procedure, you will be able to observe the oscillation patterns change and finally, you will find an orientation where the oscillation stays in a flat line. Clearly, something in the make up of that shaft is affecting (or not) the oscillation plane.

Yeah, yeah, I know, you are going to say that the shaft is not rotated enough or loaded and unloaded long enough during the downswing (about a half cycle) to make a difference. And you ask: “where’s the empirical evidence?”

 It exists in the notes of all of us shade-tree mechanics that have been experimenting in our shops over the years. It exists in the satisfied customers who know full well how much more playable their set is after having been aligned by us fringe scientists. It exists in the 80% of the touring professionals who have had their equipment carefully aligned and assembled by the OEM’s clubmakers who still deny that their custom clubmakers are building shaft aligned clubs for their sponsored athletes.

Pat Kelly is also correct in his assumption that what us spiners are typically measuring on steel shafts is bend. I refer to it as residual bend and I do have the data to support that notion.

FWIW, I would also be interested as to why the “pro builders” are aligning S1 at 6. This tends to run counter to the findings of us “spine geeks.”

Lastly,
While I love working with type two graphite shafts, I can't wait for spineless shafts. It will speed up my assembly process and allow for all clubs to be built with the shaft label up. And…… all of this discussion started with graphite shafts. There’s no such thing as a spineless steel shaft and probably won't be in our lifetime.

CB
BTW,
Being convinced that “the only thing you find with a support-the-shaft-in-bearings-and-hang-a-weight-from-it spine finder is bend (curvature) in the shaft, steel or graphite.”
Have you experimented much with a bearing finder?




At 04:03 PM 3/2/03 -0500, you wrote:

. . . Now, when the shaft is unloaded, it moves in the DEFLECTED
direction that it was loaded in, not exactly on the swing plane line.  If
this coincidentally works, great, but it IS COINCIDENCE, not science.


Here is a fun experiment that demonstrates this effect.  Put a tip weight on a bare shaft (no grip) and hold about a foot of the butt down on a hard surface  with the rest of the shaft hanging over the edge.  Twang the tip into a vertical oscillation plane and slowly roll the butt of the shaft over the counter top.  Bet your friends whether the plane of oscillation will roll with the shaft or stay vertical.  It will stay vertical, and it is science; it's conservation of momentum.  Use a tip weight because the offset mass of a club head will cause the shaft to do strange things - it basically stays in the vertical plane but it will do some funny oscillations.



The same flawed arguement works for 6-12 alignment of the N plane.  Although
the shaft is loaded in a neutral plane (and therefore deflection and twist
are minimized), it unloads in a spine plane.  So, the spine has a chance to
deflect/twist the shaft as it unloads.

All this said, the common answer from the guys who put shafts in tour
players' clubs that I've spoken with is to use shafts that don't exibit a
spine effect.  With irons they tend to align S1 (I've been
educated/convinced that S1 in steel is bend, not spine) at 6, FWIW.


I'm convinced that the only thing you find with a support-the-shaft-in-bearings-and-hang-a-weight-from-it spine finder is bend (curvature) in the shaft, steel or graphite.

But I am really responding because I am curious why they align at 6?  Have they found that it makes a difference or is this a we're-not-sure-so-let's-do-it-the-same-way-every-time thing?  I've pretty well convinced myself that it can't make much difference (for small curvatures, less than a couple of millimetres) so I'd be curious if they have reason to believe that it does.

Thanks,

Alan Brooks

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