Hi Simran, On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 2:34 AM, simran <sim...@dn.gs> wrote:
> > > On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Varun Prakash > <varunprakas...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> I don't intend to be personal here, but, I've heard this from most of the >> people who've been to India for a few years. You've got to understand why >> it is the way it is in India. Just coming across facts that everyone knows >> doesn't help you know :) > > > In my case, i speak from personal experience... they were not FOAF or > friend stories, rather every point (without exception) that i mentioned was > one of personal experience... of course, a lot around me quantified and > qualified it with their own experiences... > > In that case, I see that you've not had a very good experience there. Everyone has good and bad experiences everywhere and I think what's utimately important is its ratio. I am not saying India is the best place on the planet, but, it's not as shantaram-ic as you've put it. > As an entrepreneur, may be you are trying to solve a few problems which >> you've enlisted below. What is essential in this group is what we can learn >> from India and not the state of affairs which is very well known. >> > > Well... my email was in response to David's... it was not a random rant :) > As an entrepreneur the facts are very important... and i suspect there are > at least two facets about india (or any other place) we are interested > in... what we can learn from that place, and what we can do to succeed in > that place... > > I agree it was in response to David's email. Yes, facts are very important, the correct ones are the most important. Yes, thats what I was getting to, there are multiple facets about any place. I do understand that whatever you've said is your experience in India. No doubt there are a few entrepreneur's looking at expanding into india... > it is one of the world's fastest growing economies, and anecdotal evidence > helps people make smarter decisions... especially when it comes in the > context of particular conversations / environments... > > >> >> Also, you've got to get your facts right before coming up with statements >> like "lack of family ethics and most personal lives there". >> >> > What makes you think my facts are wrong? Newly rich indian's (including > the middle class) are taking to alcohol, materialism, abuse and adult > services to new levels (not saying they are are, but yes, generalising, the > rate of increase of the aforementioned has exponentially increased in the > past decade), and as within any context, diversity produces brilliance as > well, as we have seen in some of the mad scientists and other genius that > have come from there. > Again, my points were all from vast personal experiences, where i saw many > families crumble (then some stitched together), abuse, alcoholism (which is > unfortunately considered so cool, the newly rich to super rich consider it > "super cool" to be smashed drunk every single night!), and shows of > extragavance that leave the mind boggling (in one wedding for example - a 7 > day affair, approx AUD $2 million was spent and the work was done mostly by > adult labour getting $1.50 per day and lots of child labour getting $1 for > a days work! > Moderation and education is important. I don't see alcohol as a problem. It's like saying knife is dangerous, ofcourse it, if one doesn't know how to use it. I come from a middle class family, none of what you've listed excites me. I am not an exception, lots of people I know are like this and will continue to be like this. So, it depends on how you look at it all. Overall there are a lot of problems which need to be solved, I do agree with that. > > Let me relate it back though... most of those workers have mobile > phones... and here's a thought... days of our lives was very popular in > india bout 10 years ago... and the reason it was one of the best things to > have happened is that the "lower income class" used to watch people > demanding good hospital treatment... they started following what was done > in the soaps and refused to put up with abuse in many hospitals... imagine, > TV as a tool for education on rights via days of our lives!!!!! who would > have thought :) > I do not know how this days of our lives was beneficial, I highly doubt if "lower income class" even had TV at their homes, for that matter, even electricity. > > Similarly, now there are about 600 million mobile phones in India... > coming up with a scheme where education can be delivered to them on their > rights or other types of education... imagine, perhaps those children > working at that wedding, tweeting... so it's not a lone voice of a > "righteous" person... but the voice of the people themselves that gets to a > larger audience... now that's worth innovating for... (egypt anyone... i'm > not a huge fan of facebook... but it is unarguable that it has facilitated > communication in some revolutions)... surely with the right inventor > / entrepreneur that many phones in the hands of the masses is an > opportunity :) > > Thinking aloud again... there is a lot of charity work that goes on in all > parts of the world... are charities doing anything innovative using the web > or in particular mobile (now with gps, camera's etc) to curb the rates of > kidnapping, slavery, and other forms of injustice... > > Nice ideas though. > > > >> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:25 PM, simran <sim...@dn.gs> wrote: >> >>> What a lovely picture you paint David... :) deep philosophical thought >>> and long term thinking :) :) :) >>> >>> It is so romantic (from an etherial point of view)... but in my >>> experience, having lived there for just under 4 years, all is not as it >>> seems.. >>> >>> In my experience in the last four years: >>> * came across some filthy rich people (yes, filthy is the right word) - >>> those that do scams in the billions >>> * came across some very very poor people (and plenty of child labour, >>> abuse, etc) >>> * car stolen by neighbour's son, and the subsequent police involvement, >>> and bribery from both sides (including dingy deals in dark alleyways) >>> etc... >>> * hit and run - including a court case - seeing bribes in the courthouse >>> under the photo of the "father of the nation" (Gandhi)! (in front of over a >>> hundred people) >>> (incidently, at least in karnataka (a southern indian state), if you >>> hit a **poor** person (with your car), the fine is Rs.2500 ($50), if you >>> kill him, its Rs. 10,000 ($200) + about $1k-$5k in bribes! >>> * the waiving of money before giving it to lawyers in the courthouse to >>> "progress your file" >>> * corporate deceit >>> * lack of family ethics and values in most personal lives there >>> * many hanging on to religion because they have nothing else to hang on >>> to... >>> * happiness in the midst of despair and calm in the midst of chaos >>> * staying in the largest slums of asia and seeing sometimes the most >>> horrific and sometimes the most beautiful things there! >>> >>> I feel like the experiences almost lend themselves to a shantaram type >>> book :) (although not drug ridden, but with equal duality of experience / >>> variances in corporate / personal life). >>> >>> We can romanticise the country, but only from afar, as for as material >>> is concerned, there is seldom a person not wanting to clamour for more >>> wealth at *any expense* - you don't often find saints/sadhus without golden >>> watches on their hands using the latest mobile phones, temple priests that >>> don't take bribes to "let you see the deity" - (there are temples in india >>> that are far richer than the vatican...; recently one was found where there >>> was at least between $2-20billion dollars worth of gold in the vaults; >>> no-one knows the exact value because they have not opened all the vaults)... >>> >>> Oh, the IT industry entrepreneurs want their millions today, in less >>> than 6 perceived months that it might take in silicon valley, belief in an >>> afterlife is contradicted with the everyday reality of no faith in "getting >>> it later" - it's the land of contradictions and as lao tzu says, things are >>> not shades of grey, they are black and white at the same time... there is >>> immense cruelty (for a land of so many vegetarians (comparatively) you >>> should see the cruelty to every animal and everything on the streets >>> (except in *some* cases, cows)), and yet there is hope too... the grapes of >>> materialism are only sour when they seem unreachable, and philosophical >>> thoughts of contentment kick in... >>> >>> One must maneuver carefully in that land, be not too quick to >>> romanticise it, nor too quick to discard it... for the devil and the god >>> are the very same thing there... you have to know how to extract what you >>> need for the outcome you desire... >>> >>> s. :) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 11:21 AM, David Lyon < >>> david.lyon.preissh...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> What's interesting to understand about Asia is that India is (often) >>>> referred to as being the master-culture for Asia. >>>> >>>> For example, the Buddist Temples that you will see in Korea, Japan >>>> and China all come from India. Materials no, just the techniques and >>>> philosophies. >>>> >>>> Once upon a time when Japan was just a bunch of fishing and hillside >>>> villages, India was a powerhouse of philosophical thought. If you listen >>>> to the Guru's in India now, you might well believe it still is. :-) >>>> >>>> Anyway, why do we care in the IT/Business sphere ? well the Buddhist >>>> philosophy marks a different pace of economic development than what's >>>> found in Western Countries. >>>> >>>> Actually, the Asian pace of development is (self-described) as being >>>> much slower than the "make a 5 million bucks in 24 months" philosophy >>>> of the west. >>>> >>>> The core value however that powers Asia, is one of slow improvement >>>> of one's self. Meaning the skills that one has, in production and >>>> marketing >>>> of tech devices/hardware/software. >>>> >>>> "Just concentrate" (on the tech) is perhaps a skill that Australians >>>> could >>>> really learn and benefit from and is essential for doing business in >>>> Asia. >>>> >>>> Asia is a place where multiple innovations are expected. But more >>>> importantly, >>>> attention to the task of refinement is then demanded. It's slightly >>>> different way >>>> of working to what we might be used to here. >>>> >>>> Of course, it's similar in Silicon Valley too. But there's a lighter >>>> demand >>>> on production as it's assumed that more innovations are around the >>>> corner which may end up being bigger and better. >>>> >>>> In Asia, the philosophy is a bit different. Future innovations just tend >>>> to get rolled into the existing business. In better countries, a dozen >>>> at a time. >>>> >>>> Depending on which way we decide to trade, we need to understand the >>>> subtle differences between the two different markets. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon >>>> Beach Australia mailing list. Vist http://siliconbeachaustralia.orgfor more >>>> >>>> Forum rules >>>> 1) No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. >>>> 2) No jobs postings. You can use http://siliconbeachaustralia.org/jobs >>>> >>>> >>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>> silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon >>> Beach Australia mailing list. Vist http://siliconbeachaustralia.org for >>> more >>> >>> Forum rules >>> 1) No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. >>> 2) No jobs postings. You can use http://siliconbeachaustralia.org/jobs >>> >>> >>> To post to this group, send email to >>> silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Varun >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon Beach >> Australia mailing list. Vist http://siliconbeachaustralia.org for more >> >> Forum rules >> 1) No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. >> 2) No jobs postings. You can use http://siliconbeachaustralia.org/jobs >> >> >> To post to this group, send email to >> silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon Beach > Australia mailing list. Vist http://siliconbeachaustralia.org for more > > Forum rules > 1) No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. > 2) No jobs postings. You can use http://siliconbeachaustralia.org/jobs > > > To post to this group, send email to > silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en > -- Varun -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon Beach Australia mailing list. Vist http://siliconbeachaustralia.org for more Forum rules 1) No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. 2) No jobs postings. You can use http://siliconbeachaustralia.org/jobs To post to this group, send email to silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en
