Hi Geoff,
I don't think its histrionics saying they are being demonised considering
what Avis posted, which is really what my initial post was directed at.
"These guys are idiots. Way to bring down the Aussie startup scene boys.
Behaviour like this is deplorable. The only people who would find this
'joke' funny are sexist idiots - not only is this demeaning to women, it is
demeaning to the decent men in the Aussie startup scene and is a sad
reflection of what is now considered 'newsworthy'. "
I did not "feel the need to descend from On High and inform everyone who
was offended or annoyed that they are in fact Wrong and Missing the Point". I
genuinely didn't have an opinion (and I tried to state that I was not
particularly convinced of any I mentioned) until I read Elias' email
because I didn't know both sides of the story (or at least hadn't heard
anything from the other side or from an impartial observer). I was not
trying to hide an opinion behind some rhetoric or moral superiority
argument, but I guess you will just have to take my word for it. I despise
intellectual dishonesty.
I guess all I tried to say was that there IS another side of the story and
things are rarely ever as black and white as they are made out to be by
people with an agenda. I think Elias' post showed this very clearly - it
provided much needed context to a very one sided story. Even the video is
out of context.
I think people reacting to rumour and gossip when they don't have the whole
story is the real corruption of society, not whether some guys made a bad
joke. I've seen this happen way too often to put up with it anymore and I
will continue to argue against it (which I hope you agree I am entitled to
do). I really don't care or have an opinion either way on whether they went
too far and did something sexist, I was just making a statement about
people having some humility and NOT thinking they know everything
(ironically, a similar argument to yours I think).
That said, I do think we can discuss things that come up when we don't have
all the facts, but we just need to be mindful of the gaps in our knowledge
of the situation and avoid judging people.
Dylan Sale
On 12 September 2013 12:57, Geoff Langdale <geoff.langd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK. So, quite a thread. I'm not crazy about keeping it going in *any*
> form, but this thread is a canonical example of What Not To Do (for almost
> all concerned, probably including myself):
>
> 1) Spare me the histrionics - I think the consensus among the people who
> *really* didn't like this presentation was that these guys acted like
> idiots, and should have made a real apology immediately, and that's about
> it. Even in some of the more excessive responses I saw elsewhere on the net
> I don't recall anyone suggesting they be "strung up", be ostracized, "never
> work again", etc. Get a grip on yourselves. This is a nice way of taking
> the high moral ground, but effectively, what you're saying is "shut the
> hell up and don't criticize anyone".
>
> 2) Stop dressing up opinions and spin as "secret inside knowledge". To
> read some of the posts, you'd think that the whole event was actually a
> carefully coded ritual conducted in Swahili, and that only a Elder of the
> Tribe can actually explain the Mysterious Events that were captured in the
> 1 minute video.
>
> Sorry, but it's a pitching competition. It's a one minute video. We saw
> it. We get it. I also understand that some people think the routine was
> funny, or understandable, or some bit of random Aussie "jocularity" that
> Americans don't understand, etc. It's possible to disagree about that
> without pretending that you have the ONE TRUE INTERPRETATION OF EVERYTHING
> and that anyone with a different viewpoint to yours is just "overreacting"
> without possession of the "real facts". The real facts are that the guys
> stood up and did what they did at a not-particularly-mysterious public
> event, and there a video of exactly what they did. Everything else is
> interpretation, including all the bollocks about how it was just comedy and
> no-one is apparently allowed to say anything as a result.
>
> Honestly one of the major things keeping the controversy going is that
> people like Dylan and Elias don't seem to understand this above point, and
> instead feel the need to descend from On High and inform everyone who was
> offended or annoyed that they are in fact Wrong and Missing the Point. This
> isn't made that any more palatable by wheeling out a million irrelevancies
> ("if this had been a anti-douchebag app, people would have liked it",
> "Aussies are larrikins", "in a comedy club this would have been OK", "we
> live in a culture where people act like farts cause global warming").
>
> If you think the world needs to be a little more Bro-Friendly, just say
> so... it's a point of view. :-) Many people will disagree, but at least
> you're engaged in a actual conversation, not parading around claiming that
> you've got access to the true state of affairs and everyone else is a
> hysterical moron.
>
> 3) A swift actual apology short-circuits almost everything, and the less
> bullshit excuses in the apology, the more likely that the whole thing will
> go away. What not to do: "guys here, sorry if we offended some of you, very
> unintentional. Just a fun Aussie hack." Techcrunch got this right with
> their detailed apology.
>
> Alternately don't apologize and brazen it out; but please don't do that
> bullshit thing where you apologize that "you were offended that I did X".
> Either you're sorry you did X or you're not. If you're not sorry, then
> harden up and say that. You can't have it both ways.
>
>
>
> Just my opinion; feel free to recognize it (and your own) as such.
>
> Geoff.
>
>
> On Monday, 9 September 2013 17:06:12 UTC+10, Geoff Langdale wrote:
>
>> Great work:
>>
>> http://www.smh.com.au/digital-**life/smartphone-apps/**
>> techcrunch-forced-to-**apologise-over-sydney-duos-**
>> titstare-app-20130909-2tflb.**html<http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/smartphone-apps/techcrunch-forced-to-apologise-over-sydney-duos-titstare-app-20130909-2tflb.html>
>>
>> http://www.theatlanticwire.**com/technology/2013/09/**
>> titstare-tech-worlds-latest-**brogrammer-joke-techcrunch-**disrupt/69171/<http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2013/09/titstare-tech-worlds-latest-brogrammer-joke-techcrunch-disrupt/69171/>
>>
>> It's got everything, right down to the pro forma "sorry if you are
>> offended" disingenuous apology on twitter. And apparently this is a "fun
>> Aussie hack", which insults fun, Aussies and hacks.
>>
>>
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