I laughed. I mean you (plural) are funny. Interesting, how some mail somewhere in Africa got caught by the Silk.
Here below is the follow up conversation. -dinesh! :) (am now curious about this prashanth, not about kavita) Forwarded conversation Subject: Re: [schooltool] More background on Janastu ------------------------ From: Tom Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:58 PM To: Ronald Wertlen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 5:55 AM, Ronald Wertlen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > PS Sorry about any confusion from the last post (bit rushed). More > clarity/info on my blog... > > http://ekhayaict.com/wordpress/?p=78 Hi Ronald, I flat out missed this email, and I still can't find your "last post." So sorry for the slow response. I don't think there is much we can do at this point. For better or worse we are tied to Zope 3, and our codebase is rather abstract and sophisticated. SchoolTool started with very ambitious objectives to create an extensible, i18n and L10n-able framework for schools around the world. This is enterprise software. The problem is that right now the value proposition for a project like Janastu to use SchoolTool is at a low point. The codebase is complex, individual components work and are being tested and used in a handful of schools, but we are still in the process of pulling this together into a coherent suite. So for web developers without heavy object oriented and component design experience, getting up to speed on SchoolTool is a big step for an uncertain benefit. It is also an uncertain benefit on our side. We have a pair of developers. If they're spending time on IRC the next six months trying to tutor programmers on the fine points of ZCML, they aren't finishing SchoolTool 1.0 beta (due in October). There is a long term plan for solving this problem. First off, more complete releases of SchoolTool make its value more certain. Secondly, I'm hoping Grok 1.0 http://grok.zope.org/) and SchoolTool 1.0 come out around the same time (i.e., next April), and we'll be able to start leveraging the ease of development Grok brings to Zope 3 for people looking to extend and modify SchoolTool. In the meantime, however, our priority is to keep our heads down and finish SchoolTool. Having said all that, I'm always happy to offer advice and feedback to any open source SIS or MIS project. --Tom ---------- From: Ronald Wertlen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 2:18 AM To: Tom Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], tb dinesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Tom, thanks for the response. I have looked into the code of Janastu (what is available on the Google svn) and they are obviously also using a framework. Additionally, they are tied to a legacy CMS (Pantoto) which the commercial outfit behind the non-profit started developing in 1999 and which is now open source free software. The legacy code seems to be in Java. I think with an agenda that complicated, there was no way to fit SchoolTool in, even if the programmers are up to getting to grips with your unfinished system (which I believe they would be). I have quite a lot of experience with building large enterprise systems on a shoestring, so I understand the sensitive stages SchoolTool is currently experiencing. Especially the abstract code is very scary, because I have seen a lot of abstract code get thrown away at the end of the day. It's important to keep code in use, by the end user (be that the developer using the framework or the "actual" end user). It is quite alarming to find two projects with such similar aims and such similar technologies, both in the open source arena, but not cooperating. You have provided the reason - Janastu is obviously about getting results quickly for specific schools in the Indian context. Further that project leverages legacy code and concepts which have an established user base that directly feed into their project. I am certain a future version of SchoolTool will provide compatibility one day. Best regards, Ron -- Ronald Wertlen +27 79 4354681 (mobile) +27 46 6229567 (land) +49 179 4613526 (mobile) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://eKhayaICT.com/ *We build bridges across the digital divide* ---------- From: tb dinesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 8:22 AM To: Ronald Wertlen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Tom Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] HI Ronald, Tom Janastu is not tied to any legacy code. We just use our experience of many years in developing a new code base. We have moved on with Python (Django framework). I cannot imagine diverting resources at this point in understanding and/or working with the state of SchoolTool, as mentioned by Tom. Before starting this new code base work, we looked into SchoolTool and decided it was not available for our immediate needs - mostly we were not sure of the development support behind it (personally, it looked as if the main people behind it has moved on. I might be wrong and now thanks to Tom, we get a better perspective). Another objective of the Janastu effort is to provide a tool for teachers to build the MIS for their needs. And also to provide a sense of trust for the people using it. Examples are: a principal can indicate that so and so is an English teacher and can modify only 8th grade English scores. Also it would be very hard for even a sys admin to change student scores from the backend. -d ---------- From: Ronald Wertlen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 12:34 PM To: tb dinesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Tom Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Dinesh, Thanks for keeping the conversation going. And thanks for correcting my understanding of your code. As I mentioned in an earlier mail, we are at some point soon going to have to perform such an evaluation (available open source school management software) too, so it will be interesting to see how things have moved along by then. It will probably be toward the end of the year. I am sure Tom will answer your organisational question (lead person leaving), on my part, I find it a bit worrying that they are building "enterprise software" with just a handful of part-time programmers and two schools. But I think that Ignas is almost a full-time programmer, judging by the amount of activity. So I hope the planning works out. How many programmers do you have working on your project? (Head count/time) You provide a good example and I am sure SchoolTool is also concerned about trust. What is your take on internationalisation - I read that you are translating your software into local languages, how is that going? Best regards, Ron ---------- From: tb dinesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 5:40 PM To: Ronald Wertlen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Tom Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] We are charted to provide 6 months of full time effort of about 3 programmers based on the RIF grant. However, as nothing has come of it in terms of funds even after 6 months, we are pulling of what we can. In the meantime, we are trying to collaborate with others who shall become contributors to certain core modules. We still plan to achieve our major objective in the next few months. Lets see. We should sometime soon be announcing a release and then engage with teachers in a couple of schools to see it in action. Certainly. Being in India, this is a concern and we are addressing this.
