Malcolm,
No need to apologize. I did not feel that you were attacking me. However I did want to explain the logic (or not) behind my statements. I am fairly new at CS and learning everyday. I wasn't using EIS in the early days where people were using salts and tap water to make EIS. I can understand Ode's position that we now have a reliable method to make EIS safely. And we know it works from the results people are getting and so why fool around with it, and possibly screw it up And you don't necessarily need to know the science of how it works to use it. Ode I aplogize if I have misstated you. But I am one who feels a need to understand how something works, especially if I am using it. That also allows me to possibly optimize something for what I intend it for. And I am mostly looking at data 10 years old or older and probably plowing ground others have already plowed before. I am amazed at Ode, Marshall and other lister's willingness to keep answering the same questions over and over to new comers to EIS. You have summarized a lot of mysteries and I wish I knew the answers to some of them. The more you learn about the body the more you realize what an amazing machine it is and how much less you really know. - Steve N -----Original Message----- From: Malcolm [mailto:s...@asis.com] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:38 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: RE: CS>Silver/Autism/Safety Hi Steve, My response was to Ode's post, and not directed as a criticism of simplistic assumptions made by any particular person; in fact you are the first poster to present any info attempting to validate a pathway (if not necessarily metabolic in the more usual sense) that I've seen on this list. So please accept my apology if you felt personally attacked, I certainly didn't mean to. Now on to the essence - or what I hope is the essence. My claim is that there are a number of metallic substances that serve various functions in the body, from the sodium-potassium flip that is present in nerve conduction to the sequestering of mercury and aluminum compounds in the brain tissue for whatever reason, to the movement of calcium to and from bones and teeth - on and on. These various distributions and re-distributions depend on a large number of signal pathways; for instance the building of bone as a response to stress transports calcium and deposits it as the orotate, an organic crystal. As you have noted, silver citrate is much more soluble in a citric acid solution than in plain water and though I don't know, I'd expect the same might be applicable to ascorbic acid - be interesting to find out. As Ode mentioned there are a number of metallo-proteins (and for that matter non-metallo-proteins such as sulfur, iodine and selenium compounds) that move from one place to another inside us. And just think of the Krebs cycle, present from oysters on up (or whatever; any oxygen breather,) and be reminded that it uses a form of citric acid, too. The filtering system in the kidney (invented by fish, BTW) is complex; how it deals with low-solubility items in the presence of high-solubility ones like sodium chloride, and how it cannot deal with others such as anti-freeze, is a book in itself - and I'm NOT the one to write it either. Again, my apology Malcolm On Mon, 2009-08-24 at 16:21 -0500, Norton, Steve wrote: > > My opinion is not just based on a simplistic assumption as you have > stated. It is actually based on the test results posted at: > http://www.silvermedicine.org/altmanstudy.html > > Those test results are striking in one important way. If you take a > look at the scientific studies that have measured silver excretion, > those studies show that about 99% of silver is excreted through the > feces and 1% through the urine. However, none of those studies used > EIS as the silver source. > > But if you look at the Roger Altman test where EIS was used, roughly > 79% of the silver was excreted in the urine and 21% in the feces. So > the question you have to ask is why the extreme difference in > excretion paths for EIS vs. other forms of ingested silver? The > primary difference in EIS as the silver source and other silver > sources is the silver ions in the EIS. Now note that the amount of > silver excreted in the urine is about what you might expect as the > ionic portion of the EIS. I think it is a reasonable assumption that > it is the ionic silver that is excreting in the urine. > > The next question is why? Now I admit that this next leap of logic is > open to other possibilities. But I think it is either because silver > chloride is processed out through the kidneys same as the body would > excrete excess sodium chloride or potassium chloride. Or it could be > because the silver chloride is removed by the kidneys because it is in > the form of insoluble silver chloride particles due to the low > solubility of silver chloride in water. > > While one may question whether silver ions and HCl form AgCl in the > stomach, I think that it is the highest probability reaction and > speculating on some other unknown conclusion is the unlikely solution. > > Whatever the source of the silver in the urine, one other interesting > point is that it must be formed in the body before assimilation into > the blood and remains unchanged until excretion. If it was formed > while in the bloodstream then you would expect to see other sources of > silver, especially metallic silver, also form the same compound. But > they do not because for other sources of silver less than 1% of the > silver is excreted in the urine. > > - Steve N > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Malcolm [mailto:s...@asis.com] > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:19 AM > To: silver-list@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: CS>Silver/Autism/Safety > > YES! > Edzackly. It's way too simplistic to assume that because we can (do) > form silver chloride from ionic or even micro-particulate EIS silver > in a jar, that that is what is happening in the mammal stomach, or > blood, or lymph. How silver is bound, or transported in living tissue > is largely unknown; how ANY metal is moved about inside us, why > certain metals concentrate in certain tissues - all are questions with > poorly defined answers. > Take care, > Malcolm > > On Mon, 2009-08-24 at 08:32 -0400, Ode Coyote wrote: > > > > Natural Immunogenics did "test tube" tests...probably "borrowed" > > from the University of Utah study. > > Frank Key, the maker of MesoSilver tested for silver ions in the > > blood after using ionic silver using an ion selective probe and > > found > none. > > However, he does have a means to determine total silver content in > > blood samples and DIDN'T say that there was no silver, or what form > > it > > > was or wasn't in. > > He also doesn't say that ionic silver doesn't work, just that it's > > the particle portion that does the job. [Which implies that he found > > particles..IF.. he looked and found anything] > > > > Logically, given no ions, if it was silver chloride, saying so would > > promote his product. > > If it was pure silver particles, it wouldn't. > > > > ..proving a negative isn't possible, so he really is saying > > ...*nothing* ...and everything said ABOUT that nothing is speculation. > > > > We know what happens to ions in a test tube, but not in the bodies > > intelligent chemical soup along with metallo transport proteins and > such. > > > > A theory does exists [unproven] that ions and particles work > > together to make *particles* in the blood, out of ions. > > ANY ion exchange route is "possible". > > > > Also that "particles" are subject to ionization. > > > > "Where" Silver Chloride can form, other than in a test tube that > > excludes myriads of other factors, is up in the air. > > Do "particles" ionize to kill germs? [ probably so ] > > > > Virtually any silver compound will kill germs, some better than > > others in a given environment. > > But what about that "intelligent soup" environment ? > > > > What works...works. > > That's ALL we "know". > > > > > > Ode > > > > > -- > The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. > > Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org > > To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com > > Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com > > The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... > > List maintainer: Mike Devour <mdev...@eskimo.com> > >
