Thanks Trem, Thats just the info that I was looking for and I hope that everyone takes the time to read your post. I'll be ordering one of those PWT's shortly. Regards, Robert Bartell ----- Original Message ----- From: Trem To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 12:43 AM Subject: Re: CS Tester??
Hi List, The TDS-1 reads from 0-999 with an accuracy of +/- 2% of full scale so that means it could be off as much as 20 PPM at any reading. If you're trying to read 5-20 PPM it's obvious that accuracy is not acceptable. Then there is the fact that it is a total dissolved solids device and CS is not dissolved. So, the TDS-1 is NO GOOD for measuring CS. Not only that, many other CS generator companies (www.utopiasilver.com and www.libertymall.com as mentioned in the post below) are selling it for about $40 when it lists for $14.90. I would say that's a LARGE and exorbitant markup. Also, some companies selling other TDS meters at inflated prices with a scale of 0-1999 with +/- 2% accuracy which would give a tolerance of 40 PPM. Still not acceptable. The PWT is a conductance meter and reads from 0-99.9 with an accuracy of +/- 2% making this unit the one to buy. It can only be off as much as 2 PPM. Very acceptable for our work. We have had samples of our CS analyzed using the atomic absorption method and compared those results with PWT readings. The PWT readings were consistently within 10-15% of the AA readings. We are an authorized distributor and sell the PWT at the Hanna factory price of $44.50. Note we do not inflate factory prices. This is a quality device. Get more info on our site by clicking on the PPM page http://www.silvergen.com/ppm.htm Even though we are a commercial site and Mike doesn't want us to advertise, the information I'm presenting here is something that should be known by those people considering buying a TDS-1. Don't do it...... If you want really accurate measurements of CS PPM, then AA or spectrophotometer tests are more accurate but the PWT will give you many thousands of readings at a reasonable price and quite good accuracy. Just subtract the initial water reading from the end reading and take 85-90% of that for your PPM. Example: Your DW reads 1.5. Your end result reads 11.5. The difference is 10.0 and 85-90% of that is 8.5 to 9.0. That's your PPM and it should be plenty close enough for "government work". And the PWT readings are highly repeatable. This is a quality instrument. Trem www.silvergen.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Douglas Haack To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 7:09 AM Subject: CS Tester?? Robert, In the recent past the list has covered this subject intensively. See the archives. Some time ago I was to taken to task "savagely" by a vendor on this list, when I cried "Foul and False" -- I had found a Hanna-like TDS-1 (sold by Hanna at the time for $15) -- sold as a "Colloidal Silver Tester" for $40 by -- go to Libertymall.com. It wasn't clear why this vendor, a prominent list member took me to task over this cry of "False" of mine -- except I believe he may use TDS-1 circuitry in his company's CS units. The $40 tester from Liberty is exactly the same as the $15 type. It is manaufactured by the same company in Portugal. After being savaged by this CS equipment maker and list member Vendor Fred, I put my money where my mouth is/was and ordered one. I didn't bother to respond to that individual's outburst!! And it's all in the Archives. Both units are a "dissolved solids tester" useful for solutions, like salt and water, and a solution by definition is when, say the salt, becomes an integral part of the fluid, or water, the salt's disssolved in. A true Colloid can not be a solution. There being lots of space between the individual chunks or silver ions immersed in the distilled water. This is my non techie definition. Lots of people are using the TDS-1 tester with their DW and CS and its a guide only. Keep in mind you can get the TDS-1 to give you a reading with anything -- pee, wine, soda, filtered water etc, etc. So calling it a "CS Silver Meter or tester" is grossly inaccurate. I'm now onto my 4th type of CS brewer having had "Ole Bob's" technical help all along the way. Like many people I started with the Sota Battery model Zapper CS maker. I now have one that gives me a gallon in three hours at 10ppm, based on "Ole Bob's" ideas. He generously shares his ideas to all. If you use this simple TDS-1tester circuit for your own purposes -- its a guide and does the job in a way! Like me, you will along the way become obsessed with your CS method and eventually want a "better brew". The list's recommendation these days is the $50 PWT (being at least 10 times more accurate or sensitive than the simpler TDS-1), measuring in Micro Siemens. Your simple TDS-1 will, as you have suggested, give you an idea of your starting DW etc etc. Now, if you require a CS that remains clear and with a small TE or micro small chunks of silver -- you will need to start with the "best or least conductivity" DW. This resultant CS measured by a TDS-1, even when the water had a "zero" reading, may/will still be 50% above the real reading. Now the cruncher. I've had CS accurately measured to 12 ppm by a Spectrometer (Bob's) and the TDS-1 wil read "7". This brew was, and remained, and still is crystal clear. The smaller your silver ions -- the TDS-1 reading is well below the actual CS reading. Anyway, these are my observations for what they're worth. also, the purer/cleaner your DW, the less likely your CS will change color. Although I must admit a light Chadonnay hue is attractive in CS!! So the message appears to be -- if you start with reasonable water you'll get good CS. If you want to really know what you are brewing, then get the PWT (Pure Water Tester from Hanna). I still don't have one, I use a digital multimeter and that's not perfect and not as good as the PWT apparently, but good enough. Although I keep promising myself a PWT. New members should study the archives industriously for all the emails on this subject. In Silvation, Douglas Haack Ted Windsor wrote: Thank you Robert, this is what I have been trying to say, but it fell on deaf ears. Blessings Rev. Ted Robert Bartell wrote: I have a relatively inexpensive tester that I use, a TDS 1 Meter from Hanna Instruments. The TDS translates to Total Dissolved Solids. Hanna Instruments has a US location in Woonsocket, RI 02895. Homepage : http://www.hannainst.com . I note that the instrument I have was made in Portugal. Purchased mine from (thru) bill fernaldt @utopiasilver.com http://www.uptopiasilver.comAnyhow, as it was explained to me, you use this to test the DW (distilled water) and get a reading to start with. (Most of the DW I tested with it shows 1 PPM).You make the CS (colloidal silver) batch and test it. That reading plus 1 from the distilled water should be approximately the correct PPM since the only new solids that have been introduced into the DW is the CS from the generator, regardless of what kind of generator you have. This appears to be a "conductivity" type tester to me, but I'm no techie. If the reading is too low, I "cook it" few minutes longer, and if higher than 11 PPM, then I just add some DW to dilute it. At least this is the way I manage to get a consistant 10 PPM product. I also use the low voltage method.I have a 3x9 volt battery setup and another unit that uses a wall transformer to give me 24 volts DC @ 400 mA to the probes.Now, this method and this tester may not be the ideal (the very best way to go) protocol. I'm sure there are much more sophisticated and expensive laboratory equipment and procedures available. However, the question I have for the tech people is quite simple: What's wrong with this for the average home based maker of CS? Is this tester sufficiently adequate for our use? Or do the benefits of HV generators and other testing methods significantly outweigh this method?Comments, please?Regards,Robert Bartell -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour
