Hey Guys,
Something I don't understand (or perhaps one thing amongst many) about this
ULVDC movement. Why is it necessary to stop the process as soon as the
solution is saturated?That is to say that the voltage across the cell is as low
as it will get. After this point in time you would start to form more
particles, but so what, that might be a good thing. As long as the particles
do not grow to larger than about 40 nanometers the solution should stay clear.
I personally do not stop my brew until I see a nice beam in normal room light
with one of my 650 nanometer laser pointers. Speaking of this, I now have some
532 nanometer pointers and the beam through my CS is really spectacular.
Arnold Beland
----- Original Message -----
From: ascottsil...@aol.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 10:03 PM
Subject: CS>Re: Long, Boring - Calculations
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the response. Regarding your mold problems - MOVE. Go to Phoenix
or somewhere like that. Mold gets into the attic, under the baseboards, behind
the walls and everywhere. You will never get rid of it. A few years ago, I
moved out of a mold infested environment and it made a big difference in my
health. I would probably be dead if I stayed there. A nice hot summer won't get
rid of it.
Anyhow, back to CS (or EIS as Ole Bob likes to call it). The reason that I
don't want to spend all day making a glassful at a time is because I have a
chronic, active, autoimmune virus and I live an abusive life style. I don't sip
a teaspoon at a time when I feel a cold coming on. I make it as strong as I can
and try to do 4 to 8 oz. a day. Every day.
The person that I'm making the generator for has different stuff going on but
of about the same magnitude. That's why I'm thinking of a quart mason jar. If
you have to make it every other day, eventually you won't.
So to rehash:
One quart production in about 6 to 10 hours.
3 feet of 12 ga. wire to work with.
Probably a resistor for current limit.
Stirring can be added later.
9V battery stack or 12VDC wall transformer.
Plastic lid and hot glue.
I can tell them an approximate run time or I can tell them to shut it off
when the electrodes turn black. Any more than that would be rocket science.
What do you think?
Andy
From: Mike Monett
CS>Re: Long, Boring - Calculations
From: AScottSilver
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:31:40
> Hi Mike,
Hi Andy,
[...]
> Anyhow, in your recent post, you suggested a "W" shaped electrode
> and a small drinking glass. I was thinking of a quart mason jar.
> Something that would be better equipped to take a "U" shaped
> electrode. I'm thinking that the shape doesn't matter as long as
> the surface area and the spacing are the same.
I think you are right - the wetted area is what counts, and a shape
similar to a "W" gets the most wetted area in the smallest space. Of
course, you could fold it more times.
But why do you want to make so much? You only need a little if it's
done right.
A quart would take a long time to make at these currents.
> You also mentioned that the spacing between the electrodes doesn't
> matter that much. Without agitation of the water, isn't the
> concentration of silver between the electrodes going to be much
> higher then behind them?
When the production rate of ions is very slow, they have more
chance to disperse through normal diffusion, and have less tendency
to crowd and form particles. Diffusion is the effect you see when
you put a drop of ink in water. Pretty soon, the water is a uniform
shade. The ions do the same thing.
With a long brew time, the natural changes in room temperature set
up slow convection currents. These also help disperse the ions.
I believe Ken or Robert mentioned this some time ago.
> I've got the variable voltage, current limiting power supplies and
> 5 1/2 digit HP DVMs that I use at home. I'm just trying to put
> together something for a simple person. No meters, no salt test,
How are you going to verify your results and tell when you are going
in the right direction? Without some kind of test, you are working
in the dark and just wasting your time.
The salt test is cheap and never goes out of calibration. There are
only two indications that are important:
A pale blue dispersion indicates ions are present, but at low
concentration. From what I can gather, the ppm may be around 10 or
so. This is typical of the results you get running at high current
density. This seems to work well on bacteria.
When you see white clouds growing from the bottom with wisps going
off in different directions, the concentration is quite good. I
estimate the ppm to be a bit less than 20 on my system. This seems
to work well on viruses.
Once you try this you will see how easy it is to tell good from bad.
> just make the stuff and drink it. I was thinking of spacing the
> two "U" shaped electrodes at about 1 1/2 inches apart.
> I can hook it up to batteries or a wall transformer. I can put a
> resistor in series or just tell them it's ready when the
> electordes turn black. I just need to keep this simple. What do
> you think?
Please put a resistor in series. Whether you are using a wall
transformer or batteries. Short circuits are such a bad idea.
If that is all you need, then go for it. But unless you are able to
test the result, you really don't have any idea what is happening.
You will end up asking everyone what went wrong. They won't be able
to help you, since they will not understand your process. I would
not respond to such ill-formed questions. Let some else do it.
I considered using a wall transformer with the simple cs generator.
The problem is they are not designed to run at very low current and
may produce a much higher voltage than stated on the case. I have
some that are wildly wrong, and each one is different.
This makes it difficult to standardize the series resistance needed
for the generator. People would have to measure the output voltage
of their transformer and calculate the resistor.
This would lead to all kinds of mistakes. People would do the
calculation wrong. They would pick the wrong value resistor. They
would not be able to tell there was an error.
The cs would be very weak, or there would be a lot of black sludge.
The same problems with the Hanna PWT would come up. Everybody would
get a different answer. Nobody would believe the process works.
I could add a load resistor on the output of the transformer to try
to guarantee the output voltage, but it is difficult to know what
load current is required. The load resistor might be different for
each wall transformer. The resistor might get hot and require a heat
sink. Where are you going to put it?
I could specify using a small bulb, but it would have to be 12V
There are no 9V bulbs as far as I know. Again, it may get hot, how
are you going to mount it, and how do you change it if it burns out
or breaks? What do you do with the broken pieces? Things like this
are extremely difficult to handle in a simple description.
There are simply too many unknowns with a wall transformer.
It would work fine for people who know what they are doing, but that
was not the purpose for the simple cs generator.
After considering all these things, I decided the best was to use an
ordinary 9V battery and standardize on a 33k resistor. The color
bands are easily identified so there should be minimum chance for
error. The battery will last at least as long as it would in a smoke
detector.
The design is not optimum, but it will work quite well if the dw is
in the right range. This is not a handicap. Every cs generator has
the same limitation.
The cs will gradually get weaker as the battery reaches the end of
it's life, but the salt test will quickly show this long before it
occurs. If people do a salt test after each run, they will have a
very good idea what to expect by the time the battery is ready to
die.
It is not difficult to solder the three connections. I learned how
to solder when I was 8. My mother is 84 and it took her five
minutes. She did a fine job.
If soldering is a problem for some people, just find the nearest
teenager who has a soldering iron. It will take him two minutes or
less, and he will be happy to do it for nothing.
Especially if the cs helps get rid of his cold sores. No teenage
girl likes to kiss a guy with cold sores. I know - I was a teenage
boy long ago:)
> Thanks for your time.
> Andy (^_^)
Thanks for your questions:)
Best Regards,
Mike Monett
