Most therapists I have known need therapy. -----Original Message----- From: Garnet [mailto:garnetri...@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 6:01 AM To: Silver List Subject: Re: CS> garnet needs therapy
Who needs therapy? On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 20:52, name withheld wrote: > hi > i think garnet should see a therapist for emotional problems. > > garnet can have her say and nenah can have her say. > > but this argument is helping no one. > > > > On Nov 24, 2004, at 10:37 AM, Garnet wrote: > > > On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 00:43, Nenah Sylver wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Garnet" <garnetri...@earthlink.net> > >> To: "Silver List" <silver-list@eskimo.com> > >> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 12:11 AM > >> Subject: CS> > >> > >> > >>> Toxic as defined in Stedman's Medical Dictionary means poisonous. > >>> Poisonous is defined as injurious or dangerous to health. > >> > >> I know what poisonous means, Garnet. Ozone is not poisonous. > > > > That is a totally irresponsible statement in light of the many studies > > documenting injurious effects of pure ozone. > > > > > >> > >>>> I have medical grade ozone equipment obtained from Plasmafire in > >>>> Canada and > >> use > >>>> it for many purposes. When ozone is inhaled through olive oil (or > >>>> tea tree > >> and > >>>> other essential oils), an entirely new compound is created. > >> > >>> Do you know what that compound is? If not how do you know if it is > >>> toxic? Not all toxic effects are immediately apparent. Olive Oil is > >>> often not pure and may contain hexane or lye. How do you know that > >>> the > >>> olive oil you are using is actually pure -- do you have it assayed, > >>> do > >>> you know batch numbers in case there is a recall? Tee Tree oil if it > >>> is > >>> an inferior grade can contain toxic compounds -- again do you use > >>> assayed numbered batches? > >> > >> This is a spurious argument. If I spent my time getting substances > >> assayed, I > >> wouldn't be living. I am satisfied that the substances I'm using with > >> ozone are > >> pure. > >> > > > > That is an often used and very convenient evasion Nenah, but simply > > what > > I expect of those in your position to make money by putting a > > disinformation spin on their products. > > > >> > >>> Ozone may scavenge toxins but it also produces toxins. What are the > >>> amounts that you consider proper Nenah. Do you even know the ppm of > >>> the > >>> treatments you administer? Or what blood levels they produce? If not > >>> then you are treading on very risky ground. > >> > >> There are settings on my units. I don't have the ppm conversion chart > >> handy at > >> the moment. > > > > See above. > > > >> > >>>> The myth that ozone is toxic is based on studies done over 50 years > >>>> ago > >> > >>> Absolutely not true Nenah, there are many studies since the 50's that > >>> demonstrate toxic effects of pure ozone. See this is what I mean by > >>> practitioners who take someone else's word for the safety of a > >>> practice > >>> without actually doing their own checking -- you have simply > >>> demonstrated my point very well. > >> > >> And so I have medical references for the opposite. What does that > >> prove? It > >> proves that you follow your sources and I follow mine. I use ozone > >> and get > >> positive results and you do not use it because you follow your > >> sources. > >> > > > > It proves that the research you base your statements on is not > > supported > > by a consensus of the world's experts. Are your references published in > > peer reviewed journals? That is the difference between bona fide > > studies > > and simple publications. The sources one chooses to follow speaks to > > the > > quality and level of excellence and integrity one embodies. > > > > > >> > >>> It was the ozone itself. Here is another reference that you can find > >>> in > >>> most medical libraries and many public libraries. What are the > >>> citations > >>> in your new book Nenah. I would certainly like to see their data! Can > >>> you provide those references please? > >> > >> I will provide ONE reference here. There are more in my book. > >> www.thefinchleyclinic.co.uk/nojavascript/therapies/ozone/safe.htm > > > > This article is not referenced and provides no data. It is worthless. > > > > It states:"Interestingly the opponents Ozone therapy are in my > > experience always people or organisations who either have not actually > > investigated the merits of the therapy, or who have a vested interest > > in > > suppressing the therapy. As Anthony D'Angelo put it: -"The people who > > oppose your ideas are inevitably those who represent the established > > order that your ideas will upset." > > > > Totally wrong in my case. I have investigated the therapy for over 7 > > years. I have no vested interest. And I am certainly not what anyone > > would label as establishment by any stretch of the imagination. > > > > Lung damage has been documented both acute and chronic. Again I have > > not > > said Ozone is not beneficial, just that it is risky and that the > > practioners must be well trained and able to verify what they are > > actually adminstering. > > > >> > >> > >>> The copyright date 2001 indicates it is quite up to date. The > >>> information is meticulously reviewed by a world renowed board of > >>> editors > >>> and specialists in their respective fields. This is the 10th edition > >>> of > >>> this standard reference work published over the past 64 years. > >> > >> > >> Many "experts" who are considered "standard" reading in their field > >> say that > >> colloidal silver is bad for you but that doesn't make them right. > > > > The editors of Goodman and Gillmans are not self-appointed experts > > Nenah. They are world renowned and at the top of their respective > > fields. Has nothing to do with the disinformation spread by a few about > > CS. > > > >> > >> > >>>> Ozone must be used properly and in the right concentrations. Of > >>>> course it > >> will > >>>> irritate your lungs if it's at too high a concentration -- but that > >>>> doesn't > >> mean > >>>> ozone is toxic. > >> > >>> Yes actually it does mean that ozone is toxic because the definition > >>> of > >>> toxic is injurious to health. > >> > >> > >> Spurious. My point above about hydrochloric acid still stands. You > >> can take > >> water. People need water to live but too much will kill you. It also > >> matters > >> whether you drink it or put your face under it. > > > > Your argument is circular Nenah. A clear indication of one that is not > > able to use critical analysis and logic to support a position. > > > >> > >> > >>>> Ozone has proven tremendously healing for me and for many, many > >>>> others with > >> whom > >>>> I have personal contact. I urge the more open minded of you to see > >>>> for > >> yourself > >>>> what this amazing therapy can do. For more information, you can > >>>> join the > >> Oxyplus > >>>> list at Yahoo. > >> > >>> My posts on this list speak for my open minded nature. But open > >>> minded > >>> does not mean unquestioning or unable to discern truth or validity. I > >>> never said that ozone was without therapeutic benefit. > >>> > >>> Resorting to spin and disinformation to sell or defend a practice is > >>> however an indication of being closed minded -- close to the truth. > >>> An > >>> inability to discern safety in therapeutics is a very dangerous > >>> quality > >>> for anyone particularly a health care practitioner, author or > >>> consultant. > >> > >>> But as usual when I refute the erroneous information you post Nenah > >>> you > >>> will disappear from the list for a period of time until you presume > >>> the > >>> list has forgotten your poorly researched and misleading information, > >>> also known in the vernacular as "spin". But you see these are the > >>> exact > >>> types of posts that I do not forget and that give alternative > >>> medicine > >>> practioners a bad name. > >> > >> > >> You are making an assumption as to why I might not reply to your > >> posts after a > >> point. I simply choose not to put more energy than necessary into > >> what appears > >> to me to be a non-productive use of my time and energy. I'm simply > >> putting out > >> that ozone therapy is a wonderful adjunct to health, just like > >> colloidal silver > >> is; and if people want to explore that based on my post, that's their > >> choice. I > >> have no investment one way or the other. > >> > >> I am aware of arguments pro and con for ozone, and have made my > >> choice based on > >> (1) people's successes, and (2) my own empirical evidence. My own > >> experience is > >> worth something to me. > > > > Have you followed those people long term? What type of tests have you > > done to determine there was no damage done? Empirical evidence is > > helpful but it is not repeatable and verifiable, two requirements of > > well founded scientific data. > > > > I have not disparged personal experience -- in fact I think it is quite > > valuable. As I have stated about Ozone, but the fact remains that is is > > risky and does have toxic effects. Not recognizing the limitations of a > > therapy is irresponsible and indicates someone who can not be trusted > > to > > have the best interest of their clients at heart. Profit and image are > > the stock and trade of this type of practitioner. We find them in both > > alternative and traditional medicine, indeed in many walks of life. > > > > They are often the most charming people well practices in the art of > > distraction and able to spin the most amazing tales that confound the > > critical thinking abilities of even the best minds. But their webs are > > gossamer and fall apart under scrutiny. > > > > BTW Nenah WHERE is your PHd from? Did it come from an accredited > > university? Lack of an answer here is an answer. > > > >> > >> > >>> I might also point out that I do not sell anything, no products, no > >>> books, my consultations on this list are offered freely to all. I > >>> have > >>> no axe to grind or sale to make. I am interested in full disclosure > >>> and > >>> public access to truth. > >>> > >>> Garnet > >> > >> > >> I have no axe to grind either. Again, if you are interested in > >> learning more > >> about ozone and why a "spin" has been put on it, you might consider > >> joining > >> Oxyplus or writing to Saul Pressman at Oxyplus. He also has a free > >> book, The > >> Story of Ozone, which he's happy to send to anyone who asks. > > > > I have learned all I need to know about ozone in the past 7 years I > > have > > been actively reseraching its potential for treating degenerative > > disease. My criteria are that something has to be number one safe, > > affordable and available. You see Nenah most of the truly ill people in > > the world have very little money, time, energy or expertise. I have > > been > > on the Oxyplus List previously and did not find the information > > credible, anecdotal information is not that useful for my purposes as > > stated above. > > > > Before Mike has a hissy fit I will direct further responses to the OT > > list. See ya there unless you are simply too busy with more important > > things than the safety of your clients and the interest of full > > disclosure to participate in a real discussion. > > > > Garnet > > > > > > > > -- > > The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. > > > > Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org > > > > To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com > > Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > > > > Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com > > OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html > > > > List maintainer: Mike Devour <mdev...@eskimo.com> > > >
