Re: [singularity] Re: Intuitive limits of applied CogPsy

Sat, 30 Sep 2006 05:35:08 -0700 

Josh,
Good comments. Really making me think here. It took me some time to respond. 


Just my opinion, but I see the human entire 'biological system' as growing 
from 'instructions' that are inherent to genetic code, and replicatable, but 
I don't see intention as biological.



Choice or decision-making is used to apply knowledge to actions.  Problem 
solving/creativity/innovation/knowledge creation may be leveraged to make 
the decision, but decision making is used for action or to establish a 
preference for actions whereas knowledge creation can be performed without 
any association with actions.



I see these two as often confused with one another and this is just one more 
example of the confusion of knowledge interactions, which is mostly 
occurring in some way related to the knowledge creation interaction.



Both decision-making and knowledge creation can be performed by machine.  
And the machine can have intention that is loaded by a human being, making 
it a tool.  But I don't think a machine can 'originate' intention because it 
is the capacity to 'motivate based on a belief' which, in my opinion, is 
what differentiates man from machine....belief.



I think it is also important to throw in some comments on big AI vs. little 
AI here.  In my opinion, it is much amore advantagous for human society to 
focus efforts on replication of the knowledge creation interaction, which 
results in new knowledge that can be leveraged to make decisions and to fuel 
industry and to bring about a space age...rather than focusing on trying to 
make a machine 'like a human,' which is simply an exercise in complex 
biological replication.  You can do the latter without understanding the 
former.


Kind Regards,

Bruce LaDuke
Managing Director

Instant Innovation, LLC
Indianapolis, IN
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.hyperadvance.com




----Original Message Follows----
From: Josh Treadwell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [singularity] Re: Intuitive limits of applied CogPsy
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 17:47:25 -0700








Great book.  Diaspora and Permutation City were my favorite Egan
books.  Anyhow, Bruce, I have to slightly disagree.  What is
intentionality, other than a constantly changing multiple-input "meme
cloud" that is affecting your decisions at any moment?  Human embryos
all start out as non-intentional (although autonomous) clusterings of
cells, and slowly grow into a system that acts based on certain
environmental cues.  Eventually, we expand from those meager cellular
dispositions and develop sets of systems that reinterpret output of
other whole systems in real-time.  We are products of a purely
autonomous logic system in a universal medium.  You could make the
argument that "current machine technology isn't compatible with the
requirements for human-like intentionality", but if we erupt from a
basic self-organizing system, self-organizing software could be used to
expand an idea.  The agent for the basic self-organization wouldn't
matter.  Perhaps there is something innately quantum about our form of
consciousness, but the propagation of ideas and systems doesn't require
a personal perspective.  Emotions, epiphanies, and that "hint of
symmetry" we use to derive truth are simply chemical releases based on
interpreted information. 



Worst case scenario: given some seriously futuristic hardware, a big
enough memory buffer and a conceptual list of patterns (buried in a
constantly compiling hierarchy, with each hierarchal level's product
summarized into numerous variable scales for input elsewhere) a
computer could emulate, adapt to, understand and make use of the trends
of our "intentionality" and learn it's use.  What good is human
intentionality if a machine could learn everything it was ever useful
or not useful for?





Nathan Barna wrote:
Bruce,


Thank you for clarifying further. If you ever have the opportunity,
Ithink you'd be deeply interested particularly in the second
chapter,"Truth Mining," in the science-fiction novel /Diaspora/ by Greg
Egan.Since your ideas seem similarly attracted, perhaps you've already
readit. Indeed, it's highly sympathetic to our concern with
knowledgedynamics.


An excerpt:


"If ve ever wanted to be a miner in vis own right—making and testingvis
own conjectures at the coal face, like Gauss and Euler, Riemannand
Levi-Civita, deRham and Cartan, Radiya and Blanca—then Yatima knewthere
were no shortcuts, no alternatives to exploring the Minesfirsthand. Ve
couldn't hope to strike out in a fresh direction, aroute no one had
ever chosen before, without a new take on the oldresults. Only once
ve'd constructed vis own map of theMines—idiosyncratically crumpled and
stained, adorned and annotatedlike no one else's—could ve begin to
guess where the next rich vein ofundiscovered truths lay buried."


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