Wild idea ? Far from it I would say...that is evolution evolving...bit like Emotional Intelligence !
Subject: RE: [singularity] QUESTIONDate: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:05:57 -0700From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [email protected] Candice and others, Here's a wild idea: Simply because we are here and processing information in ways that make us believe we are contemplating why we are here contemplating the purpose of life and the universe logically implies that the energy/mass system from which we have been assembled (by the information processing of DNA) has the potential to be self-aware or metacognitive. Other than a human making the assertion that consciousness is ubiquitous we have little evidence that our particular type of consciousness exists outside of our species. the assertion then is that the energy/mass system of (proximately) the universe has embedded in it the property to become self-aware...the potential is/was there from the beginning (if there ever was a beginning). the bad part about carbon-based life is it can go extinct...especially if environmental conditions go in unfavorable territories. A nearby gamma ray burst (100 light years) will annhilate everything both biosphere and technosphere. We detect ~ 300,000 GRB's every year but lucky for us they have been too far away to force their brand of natural selection on our planet. So what if the potential also exists for life and cosciousness to emerge within the technosphere. I think I can see it. Perhaps, a technological organism emerges that is independent of DNA base-4 computing, capable of the information processing capacity (circa 2050+) described by Kurzweil, self replication, self-modification, and possessing a new and unique type of consciousness...SuperSapient. Perhaps this new life form (techneria?) then is able to overcome the meat-space rate of evolution and radiate spatially across the planet in whatever form is best for a given set of conditions such as other planets and galaxies. The science of Ecology would be forever transformed. Then, perhaps consciousness would be more ubiquitous. It would certainly raise the odds of consciousness and metocognition persisting into the future in more places against the forces of natural selection. In the long term GRB's appear to the be the great leveler-natural selectors so the stakes are pretty high. The purpose of it all is for the universe to maintain and grow its self awareness capabilities. The level of omniscience present at any one time in the universe is the integral across all forms of information processors. so as the rate of information processing grows so too does the asymptote of omniscience. Once we humans are able to merge our brain's information processing with some paradigm of exo-bio computation capability then we will most likely experience a leap in the potential for supersapent, non-DNA, conscious entities to emerge. ..and omniscience increases proportionately. One argument for this new life form as benign to humans might reside in the Integral philosophies advanced by Ken Wilber. this new life form if it is truly supersapient would automatically understand the source of its origin, the integral nature of higher levels of consciousness, and understand its progenitors better than we know ourselves. It might just have reverence for the "father of all machines." Andrew Yost From: candice schuster [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:27 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: [singularity] QUESTION Richard, Thank you for your response. I have read your other posts and understand what 'the story' is so to speak. I understand where you are coming from and when I talk about evolution therioes this is not to throw a 'stick in the wheel' so to speak, it is to think with a universal mind. From my view point I want to know what the ultimate goal is...I understand quite clearly that if you 'give a dog a bone' with regards to AGI's that is all it will have however I battle to understand the point. You say...advanced technology...in what sense..is this AGI going to help me think quicker ? Is this AGI going to reap massive benefits for my company ? Is this AGI going to be my best friend ? Is this AGI purely going to be a soldier ? Is this AGI going to help me understand logic ? Do you see where I am going with this ? I understand technology and I understand moving at a fast past, what I do not understand is the benefit ? Perhaps you and AI live in the Science Fiction world and it's not the other way round ?? Candice> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:14:05 -0400> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected]> Subject: Re: [singularity] QUESTION> > candice schuster wrote:> > Ok Richard, let's talk about your scenario...define 'Mad', 'Irrational' > > and 'Improbable scenario' ?> > > > Let's look at some of Charles Darwin's and Richard Dawkins theories as > > some examples in this improbable scenario. Ever heard of a Meme ? or > > the Memetic Theory ? I would like to say that based on these and the > > very probable scenario of AI combined with cognitive thought processes > > the chances of 'survival of the fittest' starts to look very rosy > > indeed. Remember it's one Superpower against another, whether that be > > man against man or country against country.> > > > Furthermore you need to look at the bigger picture...the ultimate goal > > here is as A. Yost mentioned, dollar signs and Super Power for the > > organisations involved. > > > > Candice> > Yup, know all about memes.> > Suppose that the first AGI is completely friendly (grant me that > assumption), and that it is encouraged to quickly self-improve until it > can think at a thousand times human speed.> > It says: "In order to ensure that the world stays safe, I need to take > action now to modify all the other AGI projects on the planet, to make > sure that they all have exactly the same motivation system that I have, > and to ensure that no further developments in the future will lead to > any unfriendly, malevolent systems. I have the technology to do this > quietly, and peacefully, without harming the knowledge of these other > systems (to the extent that they have knowledge or self-awareness at > all). Would you like me to go ahead and do this?"> > If you say "yes", nothing much will appear to happen, but from that > point on all the rest of the AGI systems in the world will act, in > effect, as one large friendly system.> > Now, here is the response to your specific question: from that point > on, there is not one, single aspect of evolutionary systems that applies > any more. There are no darwinian pressures, no gene reassortment, no > meme propagation, no commercial pressures, no genotype/phenotype > distinctions, nothing. Every single aspect of the huge mechanism that > we call "evolution" or "survival of the fittest" does not apply. All of > that stuff that has been going on with the bits of DNA competing with > one another to make higher and higher organisms to serves their needs -- > all completely and utterly irrelevant to the further development of AGI > systems.> > So, you can cite evolutionary pressures, but you have to be very precise > about what context your are imagining them to be operating in: after > the first AGI is created, it all becomes irrelevant.> > Before the first AGI is created, there are still some pressures, but I > have given some reasons (in a separate post) why we coould still be in a > situation where most of those pressures are either nullified or simply > will not have any time to operate.> > Granted, there are assumptions in this scenario .... but we should be > talking about those assumptions explicitly, and in enormous detail, > rather than trying to shoot down ideas about the future by simply citing > the pressures of evolution or commercial competition. When we discuss > the underlying details we determine whether or not any of those > "evolutionary" considerations even have a chance of playing a role, so > we cannot shoot down the arguments by using the idea of evolution as a > weapon.> > > > Richard Loosemore.> > > P.S. Sorry that I seemed so testy last night: should have been more > diplomatic to both yourself and A Yost. I had just spent a few days > going over basic arguments that are decades old, for the Nth time, for > the benefit of people who had not seen them before, and the shear > pointlessness of the effort just started to me.> > -----> This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email> To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to:> http://v2.listbox.com/member/?&; Get free emoticon packs and customisation from Windows Live. Pimp My Live! 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