Dean,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Dean Willis
> Sent: 05 April 2008 18:57
> To: [email protected] List
> Subject: Re: [Sip] RFC 4474 and PSTN
> 
> 
> On Apr 5, 2008, at 12:08 PM, Dean Willis wrote too quickly:
> >
> > So we either change need to change RFC 4474 (by making a signature
> > "mean less" OR by allowing one to make a disclaimer on the 
> signature),
> > or we change DTLS-SRTP framework to make it nod depend on 
> RFC 4474 for
> > end-to-end communication of the signature. We do have two drafts
> > (Wing, Fischer) that would accomplish this.
> 
> Sorry, I wrote too quickly and left out a bridge-construct, 
> making the  
> above more confusing than my usual rambling. And I misphrased a word  
> or two. Sorry.
> 
> Let's retry:
> 
> So we either change need to change RFC 4474 (by making a signature   
> "mean less" OR by allowing one to make a disclaimer on the  
> signature),  or we change DTLS-SRTP framework to make it not 
> depend on  
> RFC 4474 for  end-to-end protection of the fingerprint.
> 
> We also have the issue of detecting fingerprint changes midstream,  
> meaning that we've had a MITM on the media (that has replaced the  
> Identity header). We do have two drafts  (Wing, Fischer) that would  
> accomplish this.
> 
> The consequence of the second para above, if I understand it  
> correctly, is that DTLS-Framework is relying on the RFC 4474 
> Identity  
> header to protect the integrity of the key fingerprint which is  
> transmitted in the SDP.  If the Identity header is UA-signed, 
> this is  
> pretty much rock-solid. However, if it is signed by an intermediate  
> node, then it is possible that the intermediate node has altered the  
> SDP (and fingerprint), and that it may be colluding in 
> interception of  
> the media. And that's just the way RFC 4474 works, so anything that  
> relies on it (like DTLS-SRTP framework) has this limitation.
> 
> The point is that there may be a possibility to fix all these 
> flaws in  
> one pass. I'm not sure what solution would do this, but I have the  
> feeling there's one out there that we just haven't quite 
> identified yet.
> 
> The logic goes this way: DTLS-SRTP framework uses RFC 4474 for  
> integrity protection of the fingerprint. By doing so it inherits  
> weaknesses of RFC 4474. We have noted two of these as issues:
> 
> 1) RFC 4474 cannot legitimately be used for calls originating on the  
> PSTN and transiting a gateway to SIP because it lacks a way 
> to inform  
> the recipient that the From: field was not actually authenticated by  
> the authentication service.  Otherwise said: as written, 4474 
> promises  
> that the From: field was authenticated by the authentication 
> service,  
> and since in this case it wasn't authenticated, the service 
> shouldn't  
> be saying it was authenticated.
> 
> 2) RFC 4474 headers may be subject to replacement by intermediates.  
> While this might be required for certain uses of intermediates (such  
> as SBCs that replace SDP because they're relaying it), it can 
> also be  
> used to insert an intermediary that intercepts the cleartext of the  
> media (taps the call) without the consent of the endpoints.
> 
> We could work around by fixing these problems independently -- for  
> example, by adding the From: disclaimer proposed by Adam and the  
> assorted SBC-traversal and fingerprint preservation/verification  
> techniques proposed by Dan, Kai, and probably others.
> 
> Or we could fix it by either fundamentally changing RFC 4474, or by  
> providing a different fingerprint integrity mechanism for DTLS-SRTP  
> framework and thereby breaking the dependency cycle.
[JRE] But isn't this effectively what the Wing and Fischer drafts are
doing, i.e., providing a different fingerprint integrity mechanism? They
would probably still need something like a PSTN disclaimer solution too.

John
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