if you look at how the call pickup works its because the device supports a
sip standard like alert-info and things like that. not all devices support
that. some do and have a poor or broken behavior.

sipx was designed for the enterprise environment. aastra phones imo have a
lot of growing up to do.

im not sure I agree with forcing round pegs into square bowls, but I
understand.

good luck.
On Sep 18, 2011 5:41 AM, "Niek Vlessert" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello Todd,
>
> Thank you for this very informative and interesting answer.
>
> It's a very good thing that SipXecs is trying hard to remain in the
> boundaries of open standards. Doing this will make sure a huge amount
> of other problems will never happen.
>
> But I'm not sure that I'm not following open standards when doing
> things like this. I agree, a phone should just follow a few RFC's
> concerning call pickups, and then all will work. Brands should just do
> that!
>
> But what if a phone does not support Call Pickup? Then there's 2
> options; wait for the phone to support it, or create a helper thing
> around it. In Asterisk of FreeSwitch land I can easily create a helper
> without having any RTP through the proxy. So I'm not breaking the
> thought of letting the proxy be a proxy and I'm also not breaking any
> RFC. I'm simply watching channels coming in and then bridging them
> based on a user dialing some number. One can look at it as an add-on
> instead of breaking a philosophy. The only ugly-ness in it is that I'm
> taking system resources to fix a problem a phone should fix. Advantage
> of this is that ALL phones will have call pickup support on SipX.
> Something like this: *78 means RFC based pickup, *79 means channel
> bridge based pickup.
>
> I guess it's a matter of opinion about strictness. I might oversee
> things like HA & Fail Over (what if a Call Pickup comes in on server B
> for phones on server A?), don't know enough yet about it.
>
> One major difference between Asterisk & SipX is that in SipX land the
> phone should take care of a lot of stuff, in Asterisk it's the other
> way around. When doing things like this, it's true that I'm breaking
> this philosophy. But what is the difference between this fix and the
> MOH on Polycom? Polycom will redirect the audio to the media server,
> so MOH is on the server. Same issue with the philosophy.
>
> Come to think of it, there's a software called Voice Operator Panel
> which bridges calls all the time on SipX, so I will have a look at
> that, maybe that will provide an answer on how to get in the call in a
> similar way as AMI.
>
> I will also look into your suggestion about other people trying to fix
> SIP incompatibilities.
>
> If we succeed I will still supply the patch. ;)
>
> Regards,
>
> Niek
>
> On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 9:48 PM, Todd Hodgen <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I'm not the owner of Sipfoundry, or a member of the developers team, so I
>> can't speak with authority to the subject.  But from what I have seen in
the
>> history of this mailing list for the past few years, the fixes need to be
>> within the confines of the appropriate RFC.   This project uses open
>> standards, and as such, fixes to make Aastra work with sipXecs should be
>> based on using only those open standards.
>>
>> Possibly, you need to look at development of your own gateway to sit
between
>> sipXecs and the Aastra phones to provide sip truing, if that is even
>> possible.  If the opportunity for your firm is great, you may want to
>> investigate the business case for development of some custom software to
>> work between the applications.
>>
>> Citel is an example of a company that builds devices that work between a
sip
>> server and proprietary phones - like Nortel, Avaya, Panasonic, NEC,
Toshiba,
>> etc.   They also make gateways that allow the old legacy PBX products to
be
>> extended over IP networks.   Many of the SBC's on the market do truing
>> between disparate SIP implementations, so there is no lack of
demonstration
>> of products that merge incompatible SIP implementations, or similar.
>>
>> A couple days legwork looking at what options might exist may be time
well
>> spent for your business opportunity.  Some of the developers might have
some
>> suggested avenues to try.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected]
>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Niek Vlessert
>> Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011 12:21 PM
>> To: sipXecs developer discussions
>> Subject: Re: [sipx-dev] Aastra Call Pickup
>>
>> Hello Todd,
>>
>> The problem is obvious in the Aastra firmware. We tried to get Aastra to
fix
>> the problems, but they don't seem to care; it works on Aastra PBX's,
>> Ericsson PBX's and Asterisk. We are still pushing Aastra, but it's a
>> difficult process, and other tried and have not succeeded.
>>
>> A fix to the firmware would definitely benefit the community. But won't a
>> completely functional work around as well?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Niek
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 8:50 PM, Todd Hodgen <[email protected]>
wrote:
>>> It seems for you, that it would be prudent to document the issues with
>>> the Aastra phone, determine if they are SIP standards issues, or
>>> issues in the template of sipXecs, and develop a corrected template
>>> for them, and work with Aastra to fix their deficiences.  You can find
>>> cost effective firms out there to develop software for this open
>>> source project.   Fixing the issues that are keeping you from
>>> deploying to your customer, will not only fix that for you and create
>>> sales for your firm, but benefit the community as a whole
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [email protected]
>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Niek
>>> Vlessert
>>> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 11:38 PM
>>> To: sipXecs developer discussions
>>> Subject: Re: [sipx-dev] Aastra Call Pickup
>>>
>>> Because one of our big partners has a lot of Ericsson setups, and you
>>> might know that Ericsson == Aastra these days, so the Aastra phones
>>> are compatible with Ericsson. If these phones work fine we can get SipX
in
>> those companies.
>>>
>>> And because the hardware itself is pretty good and good looking, and
>>> not too expensive.
>>>
>>> And because it works just fine on Asterisk... ;)
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Niek
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 1:42 AM, Michael Picher <[email protected]>
wrote:
>>>> Why the desire to use these phones so much from an unhelpful vendor?
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 16, 2011 3:30 PM, "Niek Vlessert" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>>>>> Hello Tony,
>>>>>
>>>>> I couldn't agree more with your statement, but that doesn't get Call
>>>>> Pickup fixed on Aastra phones. And because Aastra is not doing
>>>>> anything, and we need this feature badly I'm asking for trickery. 2
>>>>> options: remain stubborn and require full SIP compliancy or use
>>>>> tricks. I guess Aastra won't listen and not supporting this feature
>>>>> will not increase acceptance for SipX.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are fixing the BLF in a bad way for Aastra, but in the most
>>>>> elegant way this bad hack can be done. :) It's like problems with
>>>>> the Linux kernel in the past; you can fix hardware problems through
>>>>> drivers or tell the company to fix their hardware. Sometimes it's
>>>>> good to choose the first option. This BLF ticket is from 2008, and
>>> nothing happened.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with the Freeswitch thing. Most of the time we try to not
>>>>> involve Freeswitch, but it has more flexability because of all the
>>>>> applications and no recompiling when changes are made. If we can get
>>>>> grip on the call in SIP without using Freeswitch it's less ugly, but
>>>>> we
>>> have no idea how.
>>>>>
>>>>> When using Asterisk we could just listen on the AMI and then bridge
>>>>> the call to the phone doing call pickup without doing any RTP. Where
>>>>> do we inject like this in SipX?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have some trick up you sleeve PLEASE tell me. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Niek Vlessert
>>>>> Telecats
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Op 16 sep. 2011, om 21:13 heeft Tony Graziano het volgende geschreven:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Internal calls (where call pickup comes into play) is handled by
>>>>>> the proxy. It's always beena goal of the project to intentionally
>>>>>> not use a b2bua for every phone connection in order to achieve peer
>>>>>> to peer media and scalability.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would really not put FS in that role, it's intention is a media
>>> server.
>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Niek Vlessert
>>>>>> <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>> Some of you might know that Call Pickup and BLF with Aastra phones
>>>>>>> don't work on SipX because the Aastra firmware is not compatible.
>>>>>>> We already fixed the BLF issue
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (http://track.sipfoundry.org/browse/XTRN-113?focusedCommentId=5587
>>>>>>> 5
>>>>>>> #action_55875)
>>>>>>> but now we need Call Pickup.
>>>>>>> The problem is that the phone won't respond well to the call
>>>>>>> pickup SIP stuff. Is there a way to get control over the call in
>> another way?
>>>>>>> Something like this; instead of dialing *78<extension> (which is
>>>>>>> call
>>>>>>> pickup) we dial *79<extension>. In Sipx, add a gateway to local
>>>>>>> port 15060, which is freeswitch, and a route to get the
>>>>>>> *79<extension> in Freeswitch.
>>>>>>> Freeswitch can execute any script. Is there a way to get to the
>>>>>>> SIP header and bridge the call to the phone which did the *79? I
>>>>>>> know, not beautiful at all, but it's a way. Some other direction
>>>>>>> we are thinking is that Freeswitch registers itself as a phone on
>>>>>>> the same extension as the Aastra phone, the dual forking feature
>>>>>>> in SipX. So if the number is dialed, the Freeswitch phone will also
>> 'ring'.
>>>>>>> Maybe we can then bridge that call to the user who did the
>>>>>>> *79<extension>?
>>>>>>> But it we do that, then every Aastra phone needs a seperate SIP
>>>>>>> account in Freeswitch. Freeswitch can handle that, but that's even
>>>>>>> less beautiful, I'd say very ugly. ;) Anyone got a trick?
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Niek Vlessert
>>>>>>> Telecats
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> sipx-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>> List Archive: http://list.sipfoundry.org/archive/sipx-dev/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> ======================
>>>>>> Tony Graziano, Manager
>>>>>> Telephone: 434.984.8430
>>>>>> sip: [email protected]
>>>>>> Fax: 434.465.6833
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Email: [email protected]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LAN/Telephony/Security and Control Systems Helpdesk:
>>>>>> Telephone: 434.984.8426
>>>>>> sip: [email protected]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Helpdesk Contract Customers:
>>>>>> http://support.myitdepartment.net
>>>>>> Blog:
>>>>>> http://blog.myitdepartment.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linked-In Profile:
>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/tony-graziano/14/4a6/7a4
>>>>>> Ask about our Internet faxservices!
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