RE: [smartBridges] Airbridge Indoor Change in Temperature rating

[Joe]

I hope your not wearing a cheer leaders skirt............LOL Just had to comment, I know I can be a moron but its fun sometimes.      Joe RiverNet -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Brian Winters Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 12:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Airbridge Indoor Change in Temperature rating Nish,   Thanks, I will send that email soon. Also, I want to clarify my position that I don’t feel you did anything “sinister” . I am fully aware that I am using the radios for other than their intended purpose and accept full responsibility for any repercussions derived there from. I think the problem is that in this medium (email list) it is hard to portray “Tone” and thus many misunderstandings occur. Obviously with the scans provided by Mike, some chipsets have changed for whatever reason. I don’t even pretend to be an engineer and am wholly unqualified to comment on the cause of the recent issue. Also, admittedly, my test was unscientific at best and included only a single test case (it was really to determine the cause of outages in that particular radio) I have always been a cheerleader for Smartbridges and still believe that overall the price/performance ratio of your equipment is the best in the industry at the moment. However as a completely Smartbridges network I need to know if the way I have been using these radios will no longer work so that I can look into alternatives. All I am trying to do is ascertain whether or not the indoor radios which I have never had a heat problem with now have a lower temperature tolerance. The reason for the change is really non-consequential to me.   -Brian   By the way, the mounting bracket is pretty cool. Simple yet effective.   -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nish Park Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 11:20 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Airbridge Indoor Change in Temperature rating   Brian, We would like to know more about this heat lamp test you did. Please send an email offline with some more details, when you bought, from whom, MAC # (if available) etc. As I had mentioned in my other email, we have not made any changes in manufacturing. So wondering why you guys are suspecting that we have done something “sinister”? Thanks.   In fact we recently wrote about the Window Mount accessory to make it easier to use the Indoor devices as a CPE. I was kind of wondering why none of you commented on it. http://www.smartbridges.com/new/products/wm.php     Nish     -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Winters Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 11:04 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Airbridge Indoor Change in Temperature rating       June 27, 2003   The outdoor units (unless you are talking about the total line) still require LMR cable from the radio to the antenna. The only added time is for my installer to set the radio in a NEMA enclosure (which we buy for $12) but usually, this is done prior to the installer going out to the customer's house. Essentially what we are doing is creating an outdoor unit but instead of using a $100 enclosure (the price difference between indoor and outdoor) we are using a $12 enclosure. So to answer your questions; about $100 and No. As a side note, we have over 100 of the "old" indoor bridges deployed in this manner and have never had a heat related issue. I can confirm that the "new" shipments are crashing due to heat and was able to readily replicate that by borrowing a heat lamp from one of our customers (fast food restaurant)and doing side by side comparisons with "old" units and "new" units. And for those who may doubt my actually doing this, I can send pictures if needed. Now granted, I am not a scientist and my evaluation is probably flawed in some way but it was enough to convince me that using indoor bridges outside is no longer an option. The way I see it, we knew we were using the equipment out of spec and were willing to take that risk for the ability to have an excellent CPE at a $199 price point. If that is no longer a plausible scenario due to manufacturing changes then that's fine we just need to figure out what we are going to do now. I think Mikes frustration (and mine as well to a certain extent) is that with SmartBridges knowing how many of us are using this product in this manner(even though not supporting it directly) some sort of notice about the change would have been nice. -Brian P.S.  Excellent post from Tom, you are a gentleman and a scholar sir. Not that my opinion of you matters much to you, but I was extremely impressed by your retort. I was fully expecting a "flame" and was ecstatic to get such a diplomatic and wholly reasonable response. Best regards, Brian W Winters President/CEO (502) 863-1709 Tel (502) 863-1841 Fax www.mybfe.com Broadband For Everyone 138 East Main St Georgetown, KY 40324   Email that means business, Every email, Every day - LetterClick BrandMail ™ -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Mooring Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 10:24 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Airbridge Indoor Change in Temperature rating Just wondering, how much is the difference in the cost of the outdoor vs the indoor. Also, how much on the aerage are you folks spending on the LMR 400 minimum you are using to go to the antenna. Last, with these costs added and the added time for installation putting in LMR cable proper, have you not already paid for the outdoor unit difference. Just wondering. John -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tom Haynes Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 10:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Airbridge Indoor Change in Temperature rating I would like to start my response by saying that I apologized almost immediately after I said it. I never disputed his question just his response. (I still like ya mike :-) The community has had the notion that the units were identical for some time, I agree, but the community is wrong. I have mentioned several times before that the indoor units and outdoor units do not use all the same parts. This has been confirmed by SB in the past. They use that same board and many of the same parts but a few are different. You are correct in assuming that indoor units are for indoor use and outdoor units are for indoor or outdoor use just like 802.11b was not created for WISP and long range, but 802.11b has been redesigned to work outdoors and over long ranges where as the indoor units are still just for indoor use in controlled environments. So, my reason for such a strong reply was because the statement was surly born out of frustrations not thought. The differences between the two units, although not well documented have been discussed several times. So I say, I have explored my statements and SB's equipment in detail several times and have good reason for being upset with Mike's comments. Please don't confuse my temporary aggravation with what I viewed as I rude and harmful comment about SB as slander against Mike's effort and general disposition. Asking for an explanation is not the same thing as an accusation. Even though I went about by goals the wrong way, as Mike had done in this case as well, my intention was to get people to state their problem, ask their question, give their views on the situation and help others in the group while avoiding insults or accusations. To Mike I apologize for being quick to temper. To SB I apologize for taking up all this space. To Brian I thank you for giving me this opportunity to clarify my position. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Winters Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 8:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Airbridge Indoor Change in Temperature rating Tom, Firstly, I think that Mike has a valid question. Smartbridges has long told us that we should use outdoor radios and that indoor radios aren't supported in outdoor conditions. The community's rebuttal has always been that the units are physically identical and therefore will work as well but cost less. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that lowering the temperature tolerance on the indoor units to drive sales of the more expensive (and since practically identical; better margin) units is a likely candidate for the sudden change. As many of you may know from the DSL reports forum, I am one of Smartbridges best cheerleaders so I must contend that there is also a chance the change was due to another reason like perhaps trying to fix the freezing issue or something else that we haven't considered. Technically, they are indoor units so my application of the technology is not its intended use but let me remind you that 802.11b was never intended for outdoor deployments either and well..... My real point is that, before you bite someone's head off for suggesting a perfectly plausible explanation to a situation, perhaps you should calm down a bit and really explore the possibilities of what is being said. I for one ca n vouch for Mike's credentials. He is extremely knowledgeable, persistently diligent and incredibly resourceful when troubleshooting and diagnosing network issues. On top of all that, he's a hell of a guy and has helped me numerous times with out ever asking for a thing in return. In addition, perhaps you missed the pictures he posted of the dismantled Airbridges but I highly doubt that someone who hasn't done his research would go to that length to identify a problem. Asking for an explanation from a vendor with whom you spend lots of money and on whose technology you have constructed a network is not at all unreasonable in my estimation. -Brian -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Haynes Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 7:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Airbridge Indoor Change in Temperature rating I wish people would quit suggesting that this thing or that thing is done so that we have to spend more money and presumably that SB makes more money from it. I am less inclined to believe any claims of thorough research or troubleshooting when such obviously ignorant statements are made. Please, everybody, think before you type. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Saathoff Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 4:23 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [smartBridges] Airbridge Indoor Change in Temperature rating Greetings, I've noticed that the Airbridge indoor temperature ratings have been lowered from 60 Celsius (150F) to 40 Celsius (104F).  Unfortunately, this has caused me much grief with a significant portion of customers when radios quit working. We have several installations where the AirBridge is in the ceiling, by a window, etc where the devices often warm up beyond the new temperature ratings. My biggest gripe is that the units that I was shipped contain documentation in the box that indicates that the temperature rating is 60 degrees and I planned my network architecture accordingly.  After investigating the problem, I discovered, even though the enclosed documentation has the higher temperature rating, the last 20 new units I received are the new chipsets that only withstand the cooler temperatures. I'd like to pose a question to SmartBridges: 1.  Was the temperature rating lowered to force WISPs like myself to buy the more expensive outdoor product or was it an effort to use cheaper hardware to increase the profit margin on Airbridge Indoor units? I know the question is a bit jab but, come'on guys.  I thought I finally had a product that worked well at a good price.  Is there anything you can do for me here? Regards, Mike Saathoff Neighborlink The PART-15.ORG smartBridges Discussion List To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body type subscribe smartBridges <yournickname> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body type unsubscribe smartBridges) Archives: http://198.63.203.6 The PART-15.ORG smartBridges Discussion List To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body type subscribe smartBridges <yournickname> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body type unsubscribe smartBridges) Archives: http://198.63.203.6 The PART-15.ORG smartBridges Discussion List To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body type subscribe smartBridges <yournickname> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body type unsubscribe smartBridges) Archives: http://archives.part-15.org The PART-15.ORG smartBridges Discussion List To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body type subscribe smartBridges <yournickname> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body type unsubscribe smartBridges) Archives: http://archives.part-15.org The PART-15.ORG smartBridges Discussion List To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body type subscribe smartBridges <yournickname> To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (in the body type unsubscribe smartBridges) Archives: http://archives.part-15.org

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