Why fiddle with intermediate performance planes. You want a plane that can sky out from a handlaunch, easy to build, ugly, withstand pedal to the floor on launch, and has won countless competitions, and less than $500? Get a MANTIS for $450 it is the best performing plane for the $. BTW I have no commercial interest in the glider hobby. If you want performance & pretty Sal, Ed Sleager, RnR and countless others will be glad to help you. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]