This is actually a good discussion if we all remember to keep it civil. Me included. What is rapidly being pointed out by the varying points of view and opinions is that the answers lie somewhere between calling the FAA every time you fly, to ignoring the issue completely. Few if anyone here knows the facts or can speak unequivocally to the exact expectation of laws, regulations, and or guidelines. What we have to some extent are policy wonks vs. civil libertarians. Smile a little please and don't take my labels personally. Police come because someone calls them, it may have little to do with violating FAA regulations. The little guy always will take the fall, and the model airplane pilot is the little guy here. But again let's not paint ourselves into a corner. I have been flying in airspace; mine, the full scale guys, and or the FAA's for over 30 years, never had the FAA or the AMA police come and say your flying too high. It won't happen. What may happen is that when you screw up the lens will focus on the model guy. That said, if you invite scrutiny, you will get it, and maybe not the variety you want. In addition, we may have to agree that there is a big difference in regulated airspace between Southern California and Muncie Indiana, or Elmira NY.
The reality here is that few if any soaring contest CD's think of getting a NOTAM from the FAA every time they have a contest... JD Endless Mountain Models http://www.scalesoaring.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug McLaren [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 6:52 PM > To: John Derstine > Cc: soaring@airage.com > Subject: Re: [RCSE] High Altitude Glider > > On Mon, Jan 17, 2005 at 05:27:02PM -0500, John Derstine wrote: > > | How would the average modeler ever know about a given local FAR, NOTAM, > | etc? law or not it is not likely we would be aware of said regulation. > > `Ignorance of the law is no excuse.' > > Like it or not, some NOTAMs do seem to be applied to to model > aircraft. If the President is in town and they've said no flying > within 20 miles, you'd probably be better off not flying, even R/C, > within 20 miles. > > Now, you could go ahead and fly, and maybe nobody will notice, or > maybe the police will come and violate some of your civil rights. > Legal or not, you'll still be in jail, your plane impounded, and > you'll have your day in court. You may end up winning, with the judge > ruling that the NOTAM or whatever doesn't apply to you -- but you may > very well lose too. And even if you win, it'll cost you money and > give the hobby a bad name. It's a lose/lose situation. > > | Some folks, policy mongers and bureaucrats, will argue the letter of the > | law ad nauseum. > > So, what you're saying is that somebody who looks carefully at the > letter of the law is a policy mongers and bureaucrat? I don't suppose > you could be somewhat more condescending -- could you? > > However, with regards to the document that Jim provided a link to, > this does not look like a law -- it looks like a set of guidelines > with no legal weight. (And by saying so, I guess that makes me a > policy monger or a bureaucrat? hah!) Not that I'm a lawyer, policy > monger or bureaucrat. Since it doesn't really look binding, I'll > continue flying over 400' when I feel it's appropriate. > > | In many ways it is similar to the FCC, lots of rules and laws and no > | way to possibly enforce most of them. Some guys are afraid to change > | modules in their transmitter for fear of breaking some FCC reg. > > Actually, changing modules is allowed. It's changing transmitter > crystals that's not so certain. (Not that this is an invitation to > dredge up this argument again.) > > | Just don't get caught doing something really stupid. Fly with > | reasonable care, and know your location. > > Sounds reasonable. However, accidents happen, and suppose that > somebody was killed by an out of control R/C plane (it has happened, > after all) and it was determined that the crystal on the transmitter > was swapped by the end user, when the FCC prohibits this? Or that a > NOTAM was ignored, because it was believed not to apply to model > aircraft? > > | We have lost enough of our civil liberties, let's not invent ways to > | limit our activities. > > OK, there I agree. But while I may not tell you what you can't do, > that doesn't mean I won't decide for myself what's not smart to do for > whatever reasons (safety, technical, political, legal, etc.) > > | That will come of it's own accord eventually. > > Maybe. Maybe not. > > | After all, the AMA official flying site is immediately adjacent to a > | full scale airport. Not three miles. Go figure that one out. > > Does sound like poor planning, doesn't it? > > | We were shut down from flying XC at the NATS this year because of a > | complaint from the airport staff. Several guys were flying directly > | in the pattern. > > That sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it? > > If I see a full scale plane anywhere near where I fly, I get the hell > out of his way. Perhaps legally I have as much right to be up there > as he does, perhaps not, but I'm certainly not going to make an issue > out of it. > > | We moved to the other side of the AMA site (still not three miles) > | away, and were flying well over 3,000 feet in some instances. > | Should we ask the FAA if that was OK? > > If you're concerned that a NOTAM prohibits it, I'd suggest getting the > FAA to clarify their position. The AMA rules do require notifying the > airport operator when operating that close to an airport -- I assume > that this was done for the Muncie site. They also require yielding > the right-of-way and avoiding flying in the proximity of full-scale > aircraft, utilizing a spotter when appropriate -- which seems entirely > appropriate as well. > > -- > Doug McLaren, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki > Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
