By the way, does anybody have any issues if I talk to Nick Taylor ref the idea of putting a qLib like library together. I think he’s done a sterling effort with his AeLib library, which mirrors the framework of the qLib library. I’m also a fan of his work for - http://futuredeluxe.co.uk/ - and he’s a regular helping hand on the Discord server. That could be useful for sense checking emerging ideas against the wider consensus of the Houdini community.
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas Sent: 29 March 2017 15:50 To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H. > Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you want to maintain > speed imho. Definitely. Getting into Vex in a big way has been a complete game changer for me in the last couple of years or so. There's just so much you can do with it, and like you said, it's super fast. It's particularly useful in doing generative geometry and other low level geo operations. As much as I still love ICE, Vex is so much more robust and powerful. And sure, feel free to send a scene if you get stuck! A On 29/03/2017 15:32, Olivier Jeannel wrote: Thank you Andy ! Got to try that when I'm back :) I should send you some scene with some questions (somedays). I wanted to do this with Mikael, but sometimes you don't want to bother people to much, plus you have to be sure that what you're asking has sense, and sometimes you just want to find yourself ^^ I quite loved the other day thread about strands a la softimage. Recently someone (can't remember the name) posted a tut about clumping hair on vimeo. And I came up with something hybrid but very fast without any for each sop and a little bit of array. Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you want to maintain speed imho. On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com> > wrote: Thanks for sharing. It's useful to see where you see issues. > I miss the "sort array with key" You need two nodes: "Array Arg Sort", and "Array Reorder". Use the Array Arg Sort to sort your "key" value and produce indices, which you then feed to the "Array Reorder". Maybe that's the first Softimage ICE HDA someone could make. Just encapsulate these two to become a "Sort Array by Key" node. I think a lot of problems with learning Houdini is the complexity and the overwhelming feeling of "great, I can do anything, but where the heck do I start". Much of which is over the linquistical issues like, for example, the disconnectivity between slightly obscure naming of nodes and what they actually do. I wouldn't mind betting that if people start putting together Softimage->Houdini digital assets, the first noticeable thing will be the Softimage style names that are used! Maybe learning Houdini is a similar process to learning a foreign language? Takes a while to get fluent. A On 29/03/2017 14:33, Olivier Jeannel wrote: I'm not comfident enough to tell, and I can only speak for vop (not vex). Having to build a for each loop set of nodes, well it took me time to figure (in fact Mikael tut was the answer) Having to work with per prim vertex array seems to be a limitation when coming to sort those vertex. I have overal sorting issues : it's ok to sort ptnum but an arbitrary integer attribute I'm not sure I can. I wish there was more example (in vop) of array building and sorting. I miss the "sort array with key" I'm just starting with arrays in H but I find it over complicated. On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','a...@andynicholas.com');> > wrote: Heh! Flattery will get you everywhere ;) Yes, they make sense in both packages to me, and you have the added benefit of being able to see the arrays directly in Houdini using the Geometry Spreadsheet, rather than turning on the visualisation in Softimage and have them disappearing off the top of the screen. You can do Python style array slicing in VEX too which is awesomely useful. Anyway, that's why I wanted to ask Olivier an honest question to try and understand where Houdini is lacking. Maybe I'm too close to it to see the issues. A On 29/03/2017 13:06, Jordi Bares wrote: I was wondering if using arrays in Houdini makes as much sense as in Softimage… Andy??? You are the expert here. jb On 29 Mar 2017, at 10:57, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com> > wrote: Hi Olivier, where do you see the biggest difference with ICE arrays and Houdini arrays? In both you have ways of adding, removing, sorting, etc. elements in the array in whatever context you're in, no? A On 29/03/2017 09:48, Olivier Jeannel wrote: An example of something we own as ice user : One of the first thing I replicated was the Modulate by Volume. When I arrived on Houdini and saw all those tutorial with people using the Attribute transfer, I tried to use it myself and was horrified : I found it slow and not precize. Nobody was using a UV location + dotproduct method, and imho that's by far the most efficient method. The hardest thinking was "how should I wire it in Houdini way of working ?". I came up with one Vop HDA, and one SOP HDA (which is simply the vop compounded). The great "plus" with Houdini, is that it's able to transfer values of any context (point, prim, you name it, ..) I'll try to record something. I think there's a large place for improvement in H for everything that concerns arrays. In ice, there was a lot of things to do with arrays , hence the speed. And the ice tools were super efficient for that. In Houdini, there's a kind of "thinking" that as VOP by nature is looping through points it is an "enough" solution. Well, "maybe" but it's so criptic that unless you're a vex/C/python programmer I find it very time consumming to understand. Plus there are no doc samples or tut, a part from the one from Mikael Perterssen http://shortandsweet3d.blogspot.fr/. That makes me wonder if other people really consider or understand this. Also, if you compare Peter Quint and Mikael way to deal with States, hell, I'm 200% on the ice method. 2017-03-28 20:39 GMT+02:00 Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com <mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com> >: I'm a morron, but I'd love to have exclusive pure Ice minded HDA library. 2017-03-28 20:29 GMT+02:00 Rob Chapman <tekano....@gmail.com <mailto:tekano....@gmail.com> >: Thought I'd pipe in since tekano got invoked, also slowly attemting to transition and agree with most already said and thanks, is already a huge pointer to as yet unknown aspects and features of how complex houdini is. also would be interested in a more 'compounded' way of learning Houdini like ice was introduced. Everything a compound node of nested compound logic with exact same UI logic and Core nodes and complexity under the hood but still accessable in a single click and an 'easy for artists' ability to follow the logic flow into further nested compounds and see how it was made. Not so with houdini yet 😎 open one compound and is equivalent to inside of the neighborhood telephone junction box. Part of the enjoyment, for me, was building own logic and then seeing the contrast of the 'Softimage' way, and for sure, if you are building something fairly complex requiring macro detailed interactions with something of a much larger scale, eg characters running through a several fields of flowers, then somethings can be improved or optimised from the off the shelf examples. Otherwise prepare for big data and long iteration times. It seems covering all bases like the 'houdini' way is fine for examples and base setup but not so in more complicated tasks is better to be good at understanding which bits to leave out. 😀 or be able rapidly prototype your own. I think like Mr Bolland has done and Pooby is asking for is these intermediate compounds between that Softimage bought with it to help us poor artists out 😂 ------ Softimage Mailing List. 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