AHJ approval is not required where an exception is published and
adopted.

You could but only if the mechanical rooms CONTENTS were also WHOLLY
NONCOMBUSTIBLE.

The argument you are making as a circular reference. If the space is
determined to be NON COMBUSTIBLE in accordance with the BUILDING CODE
then the NFPA-13 reference to NON COMBUSTIBLE concealed spaces is
irrelevant. The BUILDING CODE provides this exception, that does not
require prior approval on the part of the AHJ, at IBC 903.3.1.1.1 Exempt
Locations. 5. 

When we work from requirements in the BUILDING CODE we stay in the
BUILDING CODE with regards to what constitutes NON COMBUSTIBLE
construction, IBC Chapter 7 provides these parameters.  For example the
IMC (International Mechanical Codes definition varies from that of the
IBC (Building Code) in that gypsum wall board is considered combustible,
albeit limited combustible, whereas the IBC considers gwb NON
COMBUSTIBLE. 

The discussion focuses on NON COMBUSTIBLE CONSTRUCTION. The operative
term being NON COMBUSTIBLE CONSTRUCTION not COMBUSTIBLE CONSTRUCTION or
LIMITED COMBUSTIBLE CONSTRUCTION. 

Don't forget about; IBC 703.4 Non Combustibility Tests states; "A
material SHALL  not be classified as  non combustible building
construction material if it is subject to an increase in combustibility
or flame spread beyond the limitations herein established through the
effects of AGE, MOISTURE  or OTHER atmospheric conditions". 

In order for a building construction material to be considered non
combustible it must comply with the provisions of IBC 703, ASTM E-136
and not be subject to an increase in combustibility or flame spread
beyond the limitations herein established through the effects of age,
moisture or other atmospheric conditions.  That's really the clincher. 

Lets face it Roland no ones going to "re-apply" fire retardants in an
otherwise combustible concealed space. Its set it and forget it. It's
bad code language and allows constructors to go on the cheap. As for
fire retardant "wood" look at the problem we're having with fire
separation walls to the underside of FRT roofs, it can and will burn at
nominal building fire temperatures . Lets do the right thing here,
instead of what an FRT/COATINGS manufacturer promotes.

"Any other code reference that is considered applicable?" Oh
yes.........

IBC 903.3.1.1.1 Exempt Locations. 5. "In rooms or AREAS that are of non
combustible construction with WHOLLY NON COMBUSTIBLE CONTENTS".

What's that PVC Piping ,ROMEX Wiring, etc. doing in there ?,
 
Yes there are both fruit, and yes they are different HOWEVER we're
talking about fire protection and not apples, oranges. 

John Drucker
Fire Protection Subcode Official
New Jersey



-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roland
Huggins
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 3:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: INTUMESCENT PAINT

true but we are talking about apples and oranges - both are fruit but  
are different.

Exception 5 allows (with AHJ approval) portions of a building to be  
unprotected.  If YOU wanted to, you could have a mechanical room in a  
concrete  basement with only pipes etc to exclude sprinklers.   It  
does not apply to concealed spaces since 13 does not require NON- 
COMBUSTIBLE concealed spaces to be protected.  As you pointed out,  
when this allowance for omission (and those in 13) are applied, the  
building is still considered protected THROUGH-OUT.

Now what does this have to do with the discussion on coated vs  
pressure treated?  We are in agreement that the code trumps the  
standards. But the code is not requiring treated lumber.  The code  
allows standard lumber so it's done, sends you to 13, and is silent  
thereafter.  SInce it is not a construction issue but an installation  
issue, 13 allows coated fire retardant lumber (with MAINTENANCE which  
I ASSUME means recoated in the future - not goin to do it spoken in  
the senior Bush accent that SNL had a blast with).

Worth noting that treated does not equal non-combustible.  Any other  
code reference that is considered applicable?

Roland

On Feb 8, 2007, at 11:28 AM, John Drucker wrote:

>
> IBC 903.3.1.1 NFPA 13 Sprinkler Systems.
>
> "Where the provisions of this code REQUIRE that a building OR PORTION
> thereof shall be equipped THROUGHOUT with an automatic fire sprinkler
> system, sprinklers SHALL be installed THROUGHOUT in accordance with
> NFPA-13 EXCEPT as provided in Sections 903.3.1.1.1, 903.3.1.2 and
> 903.3.1.3"
>
> IBC 903.3.1.1.1 Exempt Locations.
>
> 5. "In rooms or AREAS that are of non combustible construction with
> wholly noncombustible contents".
>
> Where a building code drives the sprinkler requirement, the provisions
> of the building code "trump" those of the referenced standards.
>
> John Drucker
> Fire Protection Subcode Official
> New Jersey
>
>

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