Slow day?
At 02:08 PM 4/13/2007, you wrote:
SHAKESPEAREAN STYLE:
O proud left foot, that ventures quick within
Then soon upon a backward journey lithe.
Anon, once more the gesture, then begin:
Command sinistral pedestal to writhe.
Commence thou then the fervid Hokey-Poke,
A mad gyration, hips in wanton swirl.
To spin! A wilde release from Heavens yoke.
Blessed dervish! Surely canst go, girl.
The Hoke, the poke -- banish now thy doubt
Verily, I say, 'tis what it's all about.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve
Leyton
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 1:45 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: CPVC products
You put your right foot in, you take your right foot out ...
Thanks for a very helpful summary Mike.
Steve Leyton
PROTECTION DESIGN & CONSULTING
P.S. What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike
Brown (TECH- GVL)
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 1:41 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: CPVC products
Victaulic did use resin made by Georgia Gulf as did Spears. Spears did
make some of the larger sizes of fitting for Tyco and I assume that they
still do but in general Tyco uses Noveon. Reliable sells Harvel pipe
which is Noevon resin and Spears fittings which I thought used Georgia
Gulf but maybe not. Viking has bought or restarted the old Thompson
fittings and pipe which will use Neovon. The Noveon reps tried to
push the compatibility issue but they had a problem after Thompson
fittings went off the market and there were no manufacturers of fittings
that used Neoveon except Tyco so they kind of back off that issue.
If you have any doubts about the compatibility please go the Spears web
site.
Basically if the product is UL Listed and/or FM Approved there should
not be a problem.
But I would caution against using white pvc and intermixing it with
CPVC. That is a NO NO.
Michael L. Brown
The Reliable Automatic Sprinkler Company.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve
Leyton
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 2:30 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: CPVC products
The different brands of CPVC are cross-listed, particularly the
Spears-Noveon family interconnections. I'm pretty sure that Victaulic
is Noveon and not proprietary; Spears is proprietary in that they are
starting from scratch with raw material.
Steve Leyton
PROTECTION DESIGN & CONSULTING
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg
McGahan
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 11:27 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: CPVC products
We have used every combination known to man including mixing the Orange
pipe and fittings with normal white PVC using the One Step glue (for
drains, UG,
etc) with absolutely no problems whatsoever.
Greg
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC
1160 McKenzie Road
Cantonment, FL 32533
850-937-1850
Fax: 850-937-1852
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul
Sincaglia
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 1:04 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: CPVC products
Ron-
I generally assumed the same thing....but you know what assumptions do.
I was wrong. There are a number of suppliers of CPVC and of course only
those using Noveon's resin product in accordance with their terms etc.
can be called "Blazemaster". Other companies are making CPVC pipe
and/or fittings using resins that are not "Blazemaster". One good
example is Spears who used to be Blazemaster but has since changed for
whatever reason.
The only issue I have identified so far is that some CPVC manufacturer's
and/or products may not have all of the same UL listings. For example
Blazemaster brand pipe may be listed for use in a riser application but
a competitor may not be.
Obviously this listing distinction would only matter if you were using
the CPVC pipe in particular application where there was a unique listing
issue.
Moreover, this listing issue may be an academic issue. From what I can
tell, the special listing distinctions simply mean that one entity has
gone through the trouble to test their product in a particular
orientation (to expand market use) and the other guy has not done so
(yet).
>From an AHJ standpoint, the listing distinction does matter as that is
the code...but as an AHJ myself (my other hat) I don't know that I have
ever made the distinction (I learned something today). My thinking was
always....it is Orange...it doesn't leak....it passes the hydrostatic
test etc...Good to Go. Now I have something else to torment sprinkler
contractors with.
Which brings me back to the original question...Is there any factual
data that would indicate that competing CPVC products are incompatible?
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron
Greenman
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 1:34 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Mark Hoyt
Subject: Re: CPVC products
Paul,
As far as I know the only manufacturer of cpvc pellets (the "raw"
material) is Noveon and that they will only sell their product to
manufacturers that adhere their (Noveon's) manufacturing standards so
essentially all cpvc is the same. There used to be a compatibility issue
with a different base material manufactured by GEM before Tyco acquired
Grinnell but the GEM product has not been available for years. I'm ccing
a copy of this to Mark Hoyt (Noveon rep hereabouts) and a trusted
friend, Mark, can you confirm my comments or give Paul the true skinny.
On 4/12/07, Paul Sincaglia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Folks-
>
> Just a general question regarding CPVC.
>
> As a specifier, I normally make no distinctions regarding the
> manufacturer or brand name for piping or fittings. I simply state the
> material and relevant/applicable ASTM standards etc. After all, I
want
> my clients to get the best pricing and open specs tend to do that.
> Obviously I make exceptions to that if I have a good reason (hydraulic
> performance, specific feature needed/wanted, similarity with an owners
> other systems etc.)
>
> Which brings me to my question...Is there any need to be more specific
> about CPVC products? I have always held the belief that CPVC is CPVC.
> Provided that supplier of pipe and/or fittings maintains a UL listing
> (or other listing) for their products for fire protection use, then
the
> parts are essentially interchangeable. Am I wrong?
>
> I know that Blazemaster in their literature will generally steer you
> toward product mfg/suppliers that use their resin and assume the
others
> do the same. But I have always seen this as being the equivalent of
GM
> wanting me to use Genuine GM parts.
>
> Does anyone have any hard factual data to the contrary such as
technical
> bulletins etc.
>
> Thanks
>
> Paul Sincaglia
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris
> Brown
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 1:43 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: CPVC & Seismic Bracing
>
> Maybe this will help
>
> To register click on this link https://www.krm.com/clse
>
> Topic: New Seismic Requirements with NFPA and IBC The topic of seismic
> design has become well known to many over the past five years. And
like
> many, your learning experience has most likely come with a cost. The
> new editions of NFPA and IBC have arrived and offer a much more
> understandable process for those of us involved with fire protection
> systems to apply. This seminar has been organized with condensed
> step-by-step information that leads from the "when" through to the
> "how". Whether you have wrestled with this before or you have not yet
> experienced this process, this seminar will be valuable to both
> engineers of record, sprinkler system designers and authorities of
> jurisdiction. You do not want to miss this.
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Chris Brown
> Fire Protection Designer, Poole Fire Protection
> Office: 913.829.8650 Direct: 913.747.2056 Cell: 913.208.3600
Fax:
> 913.829.8690
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 12:09 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: CPVC & Seismic Bracing
>
> Roland,
>
> That's exactly what I thought and tried to explain to the South
Carolina
> State Fire Marshall's office. They insist the piping has to be 2 1/2"
or
> larger.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> |---------+---------------------------------------->
> | | Roland Huggins |
> | | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>|
> | | Sent by: |
> | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]|
> | | prinkler.org |
> | | 04/04/2007 12:32 PM |
> | | Please respond to |
> | | sprinklerforum |
> |---------+---------------------------------------->
>
>
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> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> To|
> | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> |
> |
> cc|
> |
> |
> |
> Subject|
> | Re: CPVC & Seismic Bracing
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
>
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>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------------------|
>
>
>
>
> the pipe size on the branch line is when a sway brace is REQUIRED for
> the branch line. That criteria does NOT eliminate the requirement to
> sway brace the main by use of an offset brace thus size is immaterial
> (except for the brace being listed for the size of interest). If the
> brace wasn't listed for 1 inch (which it is), then as the designer,
> you'd need to size the starter piece to meet the needs of the brace.
>
> Roland
>
> On Apr 4, 2007, at 8:35 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > I know this was discussed recently but I don't think this specific
> > point was brought up. Currently there is only one listed sway brace
> > for CPVC and it is a lateral brace. Now in order to provide
> > longitudinal bracing it was suggested to install a lateral brace on
> > the branch line within 24 in. of the main. However if you read
> > 9.3.5.3.5 it states "...for lines that are 2 1/2" and greater in
> > diameter". So what do you do for a 13R system with lets say 1 1/2"
> > mains and 1" branch lines?
> >
> > Matt Drewello
> >
>
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--
Ron Greenman
at home....
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