Joe, I agree with your reasoning and will be removing the foam but, I don't believe that your response reflects what is now written in NFPA 13. Below is the proposal from the ROP for the referenced section.
Looking at the substantiation, the submitter was trying to come up with language so that the user or enforcer could determine whether or not the material will propagate fire. The way I read it, there is no reference to a corner test in any way. The only test is the NFPA 255 test that appears to have been mistakenly extended for 20 minutes. Unless I am mistaken, I don't believe that anyone could use this section comfortably to allow any material since there is no published documentation that the NFPA 255(E84) test has been extended for 20 minutes and shows a material "not to propagate fire." There isn't any criteria in that standard to come to that conclusion. Actually, the foam that I have data on would give a 25 or less rating flame spread on all surfaces just as the fire retardant treated wood as indicated by the submitter of the proposal, but I don't know that either would be shown "not to propagate fire" so as to meet this section. Maybe if the other test were referenced (NFPA 286) the section would make more sense? Thanks Peter 13-293 Log #823 AUT-SSI Final Action: Accept in Principle (8.14.2.10) _______________________________________________________________ SUBMITTER: Joseph T. Holland, III, Hoover Treated Wood Products RECOMMENDATION: Revise text to read as follows: 8.14.1.2.10 Concealed spaces where rigid materials are used and the exposed surfaces have a flame spread rating of 25 or less ,[new]a smoke developed rating of 50 or less,[new] and the materials have been demonstrated not to propagate fire [new]when tested in accordance with NFPA 255, Standard Method of Test of Surface Burning Characteristics of Building Materials, 2000 edition, extended for an additional 20 minutes [new] in the form in which they are installed shall not require sprinkler protection. SUBSTANTIATION: The section as written does not tell the user or enforcer how to determine whether or not the material will propagate fire or how long it needs to be exposed to fire to make that determination. The section as written could allow a brush-on or paint-on coating to be used. The proposal establishes a test method and a duration of time for exposure. The requirements are similar to fire-retardant-treated wood. FRTW is allowed in 8.14.1.2.11. Materials approved under 8.14.2.10 should be at least equivalent to FRTW. Smoke is an important factor in a fire in that too much can hinder escape, rescue and fire fighting. COMMITTEE MEETING ACTION: Accept in Principle Accept in principle, change to read: 8.14.1.2.10 Concealed spaces where rigid materials are used and the exposed surfaces have a flame spread index of 25 or less , and the materials have been demonstrated not to propagate fire [new]when tested in accordance with NFPA 255, Standard Method of Test of Surface Burning Characteristics of Building Materials, 2000 edition,[new] extended for an additional 20 minutes in the form in which they are installed shall not require sprinkler protection. COMMITTEE STATEMENT: Submitter presented to the committee his comments and agreed with the changes made to the proposal. The committee felt that the comments about smoke ratings would be of no use in the standard and would just lead to confusion. NUMBER ELIGIBLE TO VOTE: 30 BALLOT RESULTS: Affirmative: 29 BALLOT NOT RETURNED: 1 AMAR -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Hankins Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 5:44 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Non-combustible concealed space - or is it? Peter, As the E84 test is a horizontal burning test and your insulation is installed on walls, the E84 test does not meet the "in the form they which they are installed" criteria. More importantly, corner tests have shown repeatedly that exposed foam with 25 flame spread can produce a spectacular fire when installed on walls.. In fact, 25 flame spread insulation on walls can produce a fire that will race ahead of sprinklers, stopping only when it runs out of foam to burn.. Exposed foam on walls is bad news, with or without sprinklers. Joe Larrimer, Peter A wrote: > NFPA 13 states the following. > > 8.15.1.2.10 Concealed spaces where rigid materials are used and the > exposed surfaces have a flame spread index of 25 or less, and the > materials have been demonstrated not to propagate fire when tested in > accordance with NFPA 255, Standard Method of Test of Surface Burning > Characteristics of Building Materials, extended for an additional 20 > minutes in the form in which they are installed, shall not require > sprinkler protection. > > I have a foam insulation sprayed on the walls of an otherwise > non-combustible concealed space, that has a 25 or less flame spread that > is marketed as flame retardant in accordance with ASTM E84 (same as the > NFPA 255 test). > > Can anyone educate me on what "and the materials have been demonstrated > not to propagate fire when tested in accordance with NFPA 255, Standard > Method of Test of Surface Burning Characteristics of Building Materials, > extended for an additional 20 minutes in the form in which they are > installed" means? > > Considering that the tunnel test measures materials installed on the > tunnel ceiling so I am not sure what this code language means. Can > anyone shed some light/committee members? > > Would you accept the material in a non-combustible concealed space? > > Thanks > > Peter A. Larrimer PE > Safety & Fire Protection Engineer > VISN 4 > Voice 412-365-5466 > Cell 412-999-1321 > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
