Gregg,

Aside from from preventing the test header line and outlets from
freezing (that's the obvious part up north) there is a code reference;

1999 NFPA-20 2-11 Exception: "The test outlet control valves shall be
supervised closed".

One could always cite 2002 NFPA-13 8.15.3.1.1 in colder climates.

On the jockey pump. I see most if not all valves supervised. Is there a
direct code reference ?. 1999 NFPA-20 2-19.5 could and would be cited
where a jockey pump has been bypassed resulting in the main fire pump
operating to maintain system pressure.  I believe that because 1999
NFPA-20 2-19.3 requires indicating valves and most often those are
integrated with a tamper device the valves get connected to the building
fire alarm system as supervisory causing.

John Drucker
Fire Protection Subcode Official

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gregg
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 7:43 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Fire Pump Test Header Valve Supervision

If I may ask the obvious, where does the code state that the test header
valve requires supervision? Operation of it would not impede the fire
protection system. While I'm sticking my neck out, is the jockey pump
control valve supposed to be supervised?
Gregg 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John
Drucker
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 6:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Fire Pump Test Header Valve Supervision


Mike, Please;

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
John
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MIKE
HENKE
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 5:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Fire Pump Test Header Valve Supervision

Make sure about it monitoring the valve in the closed position. Chances
are you will have to almost completely open the valve before the
switches will activate. Typically the switches are set to activate
within the first 2 revolutions of the handwheel or 1/5 of the valve
travel from the fully open position. So if you wire it to monitor the
valve closed, most likely you will have to open it to within 2
revolutions of fully open or 4/5 open before the switches will trip.
Confirm this with Vic before proceeding. They may have special
modifications for this situation. We have handled this in the past by
mounting a bracket to the outside of the valve body and using the
indicating flag to operate the standard Potter butterfly tamper switch.
I can send a drawing if necessary.

Regards,
mike

>>> "Joe Burtell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 10/19/2007 12:07 PM >>>
Look at the Vic 705W Butterfly valve. I just checked the datasheet. It
will monitor in the fully open or closed position.

Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS
Burtell Fire Protection, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.burtellfire.com 


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike
Wisneski
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 11:01 AM
To: [email protected] 
Subject: RE: Fire Pump Test Header Valve Supervision

John,

I went through the same exercise last month. The only luck I had was
with Ferguson Fire & Fab out of Tucker, GA. They have a company that
will alter a butterfly tamper to work correctly with a fire pump test
header. Contact Jim Sutton.

Mike Wisneski

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John
Drucker
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 11:13 AM
To: [email protected] 
Subject: Fire Pump Test Header Valve Supervision


Does anyone have product reference for a tamper switch and or tamper
switch/valve assembly configured for use on a fire pump test header
aside from pull type (PTS) cable devices ?.

Thanks

John Drucker
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