This is particularly interesting in light of NFPA 13 requiring old style sprinklers in fur vaults, presumably to protect the desiccated cedar ceiling material, and pendant heads in the upright position under combustible decking at docks. Perhaps a directional spray nozzle like the old Grinnell EA-1s (I don't know if Tyco still uses the same designation and am too lazy to look it up) or totally new design is more appropriate. (Of course I doubt if the market is large enough to even support the cost of the listing testing for the existing nozzles much less the R&D of new stuff.) ( And then there's always the question that seems to be forgotten a lot when talking fire protection--is there really an arguable problem?)
On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 8:41 AM, David de Vries <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Joe and Forum Members: > > This is the second time on the Forum I have heard of a photograph of a > post-fire scene involving combustible construction and old style sprinklers > with, what Joe describes as, reverse swiss cheese, where circles of wood > survived above the old style sprinklers, yet between them, the wood deck was > consumed. If anyone knows the source of that photo, or has a copy of it, I > would sincerely appreciate getting it. I would also be delighted to get more > details about that fire, or similar fires, involving old style sprinklers > where the fire spread above and between the sprinklers on the underside of a > wood roof deck or ceiling. > > Thanks. > > Dave de Vries > > Joe Hankins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Steve, > > A fact often missed is that sprinklers can't be expected to control a > fire above them. This is especially true of sidewall sprinklers. It's > no mystery, because in situations like yours, the fire is well > established before it burns through the the deck above, and no water > from sprinklers (even if they operate) hits the fire. > > I've investigated two large fires in buildings with plank-on-steel roofs > with typical built-up roof covering, and in both cases the roofs burnt > until the fire department arrived and hit them from above with hoses. > The good news is that sprinklers controlled the fires that were started > below, in one case even though the area below was a furniture finishing > room! > > And before anyone raises "old-style" sprinklers or upright sprinklers > installed in the pendant positionas a solution, while they will spray > water upward, it only hits a small area. I have a picture somewhere in > my files of a wood roof after a roof fire in a building protected by > old-style sprinklers. It looks like reverse swiss cheese. Gaping holes > in the roof between sprinklers, and a small circle of partially burned > wood over each sprinkler. > > Sprinklers are amazing things, they cannot defy the laws of physics! > > Joe > > Smith, Steven D. (CSFD) wrote: >> Thought I'd share this. >> >> Earlier this week, we had a fire that started in the corner of a third >> floor combustible exterior balcony of a 3-story apartment building. The >> fire started due to the improper disposal of a cigarette in a flower >> pot. The fire smoldered in the pot and the pot eventually tipped over >> causing the smoldering material to spread to the composite deck. The >> smoldering material eventually burned/melted through the composite >> decking material. On the second floor balcony immediately (literally >> directly) below where the fire burned through the decking is a sidewall >> sprinkler protecting the second floor balcony. It appears that the >> composite decking material burned hot enough or had dropped "slag" onto >> the sprinkler which caused the sprinkler activation. This sidewall >> sprinkler, due to geometry of fuels and generated air flow due to >> flowing water, actually fanned the flames. However the fire did not >> extend significantly. All balconies are protected with sprinklers. The >> pendent sprinkler on the third floor balcony didn't activate due to >> small fire size and openness of balcony. >> >> This could have been a lot worse that it was. However it's not certain >> this was a true sprinkler "save". >> >> Steven Smith, CFPS | Fire Protection Engineer II >> Colorado Springs Fire Department | Office of the Fire Marshal >> Technical Services | 719-385-7362 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman at home.... _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
