Tom,
At first glance my thought is that the reviewer has some sort of mental
problem. I'm certainly not the authority on how to conduct yourself in
a business environment, however in the past 20 years I've performed
close to 5,000 plan reviews and never have I even dreamed of making such
an insulting remark on a set of comments. Whoever it is has behaved in
an unprofessional manner, and such behavior has no place in that
position. Of course, I've said a number of things like that while doing
reviews just to get that thought out of my system, but I'd never dream
of making my official review comments take on a personal nature.
As to the accuracy of his remarks, I can only say that what you've
described as your process sounds accurate to me, particularly if you've
accounted for all the fittings where the water is making a change in
flow direction. I don't understand his comment regarding where certain
fittings have to be placed in various segments, perhaps because I don't
have a set of plans to see what he's talking about. It does seem to me
as though this is very heavy handed, almost as though something was
under his skin before he sat down to look at your drawings and calcs.
The one comment you've included which bothers me to the point where I
think you have to raise a serious protest about it is the remark
regarding the hose stream. It would seem that his remarks are ignorant
of the process involved in adding hose demand to calculations, as noted
in NFPA-13, sections 11.1.5.4 and 11.1.5.5(1-3). I can't even wrap my
thoughts around why you'd have to take into account an inside hose
demand when there are no inside hose valves.
As for his comment regarding the demand from all your flowing sprinklers
having to be based on the most demanding protection area there are no
words which are vulgar enough to describe how far from reality this is.
From what you've described it sounds as though you're flowing the proper
water for each coverage area for each sprinkler. Based on what you've
described you're using residential sprinklers, and it sounds to me as
though you've followed the two methods for establishing demand shown in
11.3.1.2 (1 and 2). I agree that you'll certainly have balancing in the
calculations which will push up the flow from the lesser demanding
sprinklers, but there's nothing in any text I've read which makes the
claim he's nailing you with.
Quite frankly, Tom, I'd insist on a meeting and go over this. The AHJ's
I work with out here would never stand for me making remarks of that
nature to anyone, and if I were to do so I'd be looking for another
review client fairly quickly.
Hey, maybe you could ask for the arrogant horse's butt to provide you
with the name of the individual who taught HIM calculations to see if
you could help him get his money back because that individual failed
miserably at the task.
Just some thoughts on a lovely March morning here in California.
Keep us posted, huh?
PARSLEY CONSULTING
Ken Wagoner, SET
760.745.6181 voice
760.745.0537 fax
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> e-mail
www.ParsleyConsulting.com <http://www.ParsleyConsulting.com> website
Tom Duross wrote:
Preface: I'm a self taught hydraulic calculation dweeb and I always thought
I had a handle on the basics.
I also should take the hydraulics course on-line, not a plug but I'm sure
there's a lot I don't know.
I got a written review of a set of plans and calcs I submitted by mail
today.
The AHJ's reviewer is anonymous and mails his reviews via the AHJ. First
for me and that's fine.
It's a 4 unit attached residential building. Full Basements, 775 SF/flr, 2
floors with a small loft, attached garages.
Single 2" copper supply to a doghouse on the end, single zone system, steel
in the basement, cpvc upstairs.
Just a description of the system as it bears little to my questions, but
good for background.
Comment #1 states my calculations are completely wrong. No citing of
section, just wrong.
He backs it up by saying that I include the downstream fitting in each
segment and I should be including the fitting at the start of the segment.
I've just opened this up and I'm stunned. He goes further to ask where my
training is in hydraulics and who (by name) taught me. Not nice in my book.
Let me explain how I do these and would you kind folks (and George too) tell
me if I'm off-base or not.
My first segment is the underground. 2" copper, annealed, 1 piece from the
corporation stop on the main up into the doghouse.
I input 34' of type L, a gate valve and a 90 degree elbow with the tap as
the inflow. I know it's closer to 30' and the tubing is rolled and unrolled
so I really have a l o n g sweep but I usually go a little conservative.
He says I have to include the tee. I disagree in principle for now. My
next segment is the compression fitting (I actually braze a male adapter on)
to a 90 to a 2" horizontal backflow with ball valves (all copper because
it's still potable). I input a 1' of vertical, a 90, 1' of horizontal
copper, 2 ball valves and use 8 psi for the backflow non-linear loss
(guessing at the time but checked and adjusted for the basement demand of
150 gpm) and put a 100 gpm (inside and/or outside) hose demand at the elbow.
He says the base elbow must be included but says the hose demand should be
after the backflow. There are no hose valves, why? Anyway.. Fast forward
to the last segments where again he says I'm incorrect, again. I show 7.5'
of 1" cpvc, and elbow and a head with 224 SF of area on it. He says I have
to include the branch tee feeding it but I included that in the segment
feeding that segment! Am I doing this all wrong?
Another thing. I have a 4 head and a single head calc. (plus the basement
and garage). I always used to do this when they had separate demands and I
just still do but that's not my question. I have 4 heads with different
areas being served by each. 2 are in bedrooms, 212 SF and 224 SF, one in a
hall with 90 SF and one in a walk-in closet with 56 SF. He says they all
have to "provide the same density at similar dimensions". WTF! I have to
base all 4 heads (or all heads in the building for that matter) based upon
my most demanding head which is the 224 SF bedroom that is 16x14 using 16x16
flow and pressure requirements for all 4 heads. I've got almost a gallon/sf
in the closet and that's incorrect according to my reviewer.
I'm not going to start a reply now as I just poured three fingers of single
malt but more because I want to re-read his comments and see what you folks
think.
I submitted these on Dec. 10th and I'm getting angry phone calls because we
haven't started yet and I get home and find this monkey-poop (ok, I'm
sipping now).
Have I been doing these wrong all this time? There's some more but I'm
starving.
Dazed and confused.
Tom Duross
Go Red Sox!
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