LOL, what is the water utilities process for monitoring and procedure for responding to problems? Seriously most haven't a clue as to our needs. Equivalent to the reliability of a public water works is certainly a true statement. The question is to which PWW? The nearest, average or the ideal? There is no base line of a PWW to even start considering what would be equivalent.
Chris Cahill, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. 763-658-4483 763-658-4921 fax Email: [email protected] Mail: P.O. Box 69 Waverly, MN 55390 Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Roland Huggins Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 9:34 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Wells as a water source i Since only 13D allows the use of a domestic well as a water supply, what is your basis for saying - it appears the codes permit it? In other words, your argument doesn't hold water. What you need to do is determine whether their domestic supply is equivalent to the reliability of a public water works. What is their process for monitoring and procedure for responding to problems? Roland On Apr 14, 2010, at 5:58 AM, <[email protected]> <[email protected] > wrote: > This project is still in the concept stage so there are many > unanswered questions. > > The well information (flow and pressure) is coming from the well > drilling company. Well history in this area is consistent and wells > are deemed extremely reliable, apparently the locals had never had > an issue with supply nor have been affected by droughts. I have > asked for an aquifer performance analysis or other records relating > to the supply. Yes these will be new wells for this site. > > These wells will be used for potable and process water supply. They > are planning on putting in a 250,000 gallon process water storage > tank but flat out said they didn't want a fire water tank. > > There has been no mention of putting the well pumps on backup > power. That is one of my concerns but since they are not fire pumps > I have not been able to find any code directive stating that they > must be on backup power. From a protection standpoint it makes > perfect sense but in today's economy if an owner isn't required to > do something they are not going to volunteer to spend money. > > So their idea is that the wells be tied into a fire pump that serves > a loop with hydrants and the local fire protection systems for the > structures on site. No tank. At this point I don't even have > enough data to do a hazards analysis so in the end the 4500 gpm may > not even be enough. A good sized deluge system could take care of > that in a hurry. > > So while it appears that conditions and codes may permit the wells > without a lot of restrictions, there may be other design issues that > render them impractical or even unusable. My preference would be a > tank, either standalone or in combination with the process water > storage and diesel pump package. Then just use the wells for tank > refill. > > Thanks for all the input, > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection Specialist > Mechanical Department > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > [email protected] > http://www.ch2m.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected] > ] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 9:10 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Wells as a water source > > And why would a secondary pump that's diesel be more reliable than > an electric pump with back up power? Particularly since the well > pumps are going to be electric and you don't mention any back-up at > all for them. No water coming out of the well means no water for the > fire pump. I've lost some part of this I'm sure. > > On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 3:11 PM, Todd Williams <[email protected]> wrote: >> Where are you getting the well criteria? 1500 gpm out of a well >> probably means you are hitting an aquifer. Three of them and it is >> 4500 gpm. That's a lot of water. Where does the 26 psi come from? Is >> this based on other wells in the area? (My assumption is that they >> are >> to be new wells, not existing). Is there any sort of state or >> regional >> water planning or advisory board? They might have a say on this sort >> of thing. I am on one up here and they would definitely want to know >> about something like that. Are they going to use these wells for >> process water as well as fire? >> >> It sounds like a potential 55 gallon drum of worms. >> >> >> >> At 04:57 PM 4/13/2010, you wrote: >>> We've got a rural chemical processing plant. No real municipal >>> water >>> supply. Owner wants to use wells, 3 at 1500 gpm each with an >>> estimated, pumped residual pressure of approximately 26 psi at the >>> surface. >>> >>> So there will be a pump within the well supplying water to a multi- >>> use >>> water main which will then branch off to feed the fire pumps. It is >>> their desire not to have a fire water tank. >>> >>> Well water supply is supposed to be extremely reliable in this area. >>> >>> At this stage of the game maximum system demand is yet to be >>> determined. >>> >>> The question is what are the issues with having a well pump or pumps >>> serving a fire pump? Any restrictions or things to consider? I >>> have >>> found nothing giving any specific guidelines concerning this >>> arrangement. I've looked at NFPA 20, 2007, 7.2 and NFPA 1142 and it >>> appears that a dedicated fire well is presumed. These wells are >>> going >>> to be costly so they will not want to drill wells dedicated to FP >>> only. >>> >>> >>> Craig L. Prahl, CET >>> Fire Protection Specialist >>> Mechanical Department >>> CH2MHILL >>> Lockwood Greene >>> 1500 International Drive >>> PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - >>> 864.599.8439 [email protected] http://www.ch2m.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: >>> [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email >>> to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> Todd G. Williams, PE >> Fire Protection Design/Consulting >> Stonington, CT >> 860.535.2080 >> www.fpdc.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email >> to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering > Bates Technical College > Tacoma, WA > > Member: > SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
