For the record, the allowance to which Ron speaks in Seattle is on the way out 
now that NFPA 13R became more explicit in the 2010 edition.  And I might add, 
that allowance came well before my time here, I just try to clean up the messes.

Rich Richardson
Seattle Fire Depatrtment

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman
Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 08:43
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Residential Building

Some jurisdictions (Seattle I believe is one) allow a 13R over 13 in
the downtown areas where there is living over retail and isn't over
four stories, blah, blah, blah. Bottom line, similar situation to
yours. This decision was made (again I believe but can't say
definitively since I wasn't in the bedroom at the time) because they
have a very quick response time so they've anticipated being able to
get muscle and hose on site quickly. I doubt Old Cape Cod has anything
like one of the best in the nation, full-time staffed, big city fire
departments with only a several block separation between stations.
Given all that I'd say Todd is on the money. Tom P.s concern regarding
outside stairs will just be covered in a 13 design and I really doubt
that basement storage in a converted house is really an inherent
problem that would require a higher density than the prescription
calls for (getting within the 18" from the deflector is a housekeeping
issue, not a design issue when the general, incidental storage is
involved). As for the loft, is it storage or living? If living then it
is within the heated envelope and freezing is the tenant's problem
since the means of keeping the space above 40 degrees exists, you may
use wet under those circumstances (and should whenever you can), and
the code is explicit about the issue. Of course you know all that so
again it falls to Todd and his last line. You have a mixed use
building (commercial and residential), presumably in a
commercial/residential zoned area (I'm seeing the typical main type
street of a small town or village just outside the original commercial
area that was residential but now is expanding to probably provide
mostly for the tourists), and has been designated residential because
that is what the jurisdiction calls this arrangement. NFPA though is
clear about hazards and when you may devolve to 13D or 13R and this
would not be the case unless specifically allowed jurisdictionally.
Now I've done my usual educator thing and used hundreds of words to
say exactly what Todd said more concisely.

On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 7:19 AM, tom poisal <[email protected]> wrote:
> I agree with Todd, how do they get upstairs, exterior stair? You also
> might need ORD GP II in the basement depending on the storage content
> and height.
>
> --
> Tom Poisal, CET
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-- 
Ron Greenman
Instructor
Fire Protection Engineering
Bates Technical College
Tacoma, WA

Member:
AFT WA 4184/AFL-CIO, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC
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