So have I, but never did I see a space packed so tight as to allow only 7sq. ft per person.
Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Specialist Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [email protected] http://www.ch2m.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Scott A. Futrell Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 9:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Occupant load vs Square footage Craig, I'd disagree, I have stood there with other parents and full families, two and three deep as we watched our kids perform and try to advance to the next level. Packed around the edges, SRO... Scott Futrell (763) 425-1001 Office (612) 759-5556 Cell -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 10:37 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Occupant load vs Square footage This made me laugh, 7sq. ft per person for a martial arts studio? Let's get real here, they are not standing at attention. In most cases you'd be lucky to see 50-60 people at a time for a lesson. Most of the time it's half of that or less. This is one sport that takes a lot of room. 80-100 sq. ft for two people sparing is average, sometimes you can do it with less but it makes it awkward. Why would this not fall under the same category as other indoor participant sports? IBC 2006 The exception to the sprinkler requirement was left out of the previous post for the A-3 excerpt in 903.2.1.3: Exception: Areas used exclusively as participant sports areas where the main floor area is located at the same level as the level of exit discharge of the main entrance and exit. Same wording applies to A-4 as described in 903.2.1.4. If this is on the first floor could this exception be applied? Sports activity is the primary use and what the C. of O. will be based upon, right? It doesn't sound like he's moving in and declaring himself a movie theatre. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Specialist Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [email protected] http://www.ch2m.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim Davidson Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:01 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Occupant load vs Square footage Owen, The owner of the martial arts studio apparently did not do his "due diligence review" of what is required to start such an operation. The owner should have hired a competent registered design professional and not relay on his friendly contractor(s) to perform the owners due diligence review. I have run into too many of this type of owner who relies on his contractor friends to perform design professional work so the owner gets the "consulting" for free, and starts crying when the everything goes wrong. The required occupant load for 2,800 sq ft assembly concentrated 7 sq ft per person net would produce an occupant load of 400 and be an A-3 Use Group. Chapter 9 of the IBC, Sub-Chapter 903 Automatic Sprinkler Systems, 903.2 "Where required" 903.2.1.3 Group A- 3 "An automatic sprinkler system shall be provided for Group A-3 occupancies where one of the following conditions exists: 1. The fire area exceeds 12,000 square feet (1115 m2). 2. The fire area has an occupant load of 300 or more...." An occupant load based on floor area is 400, which is greater than 300, the building code official is doing his job, the owner did not do his job! Stop the crying, this is the owners problem for not doing the correct "due diligence" process. The zoning for the building could limit the parking to one car and it does not affect the occupant load determination in the building code, and the required fire protection prescribed by the building code. Tell the owner to hire a design professional and have the design professional consult with both the owner and building code official and develop a "design alternative" as permitted by the building code. This does not mean to ask for a variance but to develop a reasonable set of alternative design approaches that could achieve a similar level of safety for the occupants. So if you as the contractor has the level of expertise and a high level of design professional's errors and omission (E&O) insurance then go ahead and help this owner, because when something goes wrong you will be on the hook and the "I did not know" defense will not get you out of the claim. Have a fire safe day! Jim Davidson Davidson Associates Fire Protection * Medical Gas * Code Consulting 302-994-9500 Fax:302-234-1781 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Parsley Consulting Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 10:16 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Occupant load vs Square footage Owen, Call the individual in the building department responsible for that decision and ask him when he's going to turn himself in to the cops for transport to San Quentin. After all, he COULD become a serial killer, so therefore he must treated AS a serial killer, and therefore must spend the rest of his life waiting to be strapped to a gurney and executed. PARSLEY CONSULTING Ken Wagoner, SET 760.745.6181 voice 760.745.0537 fax [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> e-mail www.ParsleyConsulting.com <http://www.ParsleyConsulting.com> website Owen Evans wrote: > Here's the situation: > > > A person wants to open up a martial arts studio in a strip mall. The middle > unit has 2800 square feet of open floor space for matting. The building dept. > comes up with an occupant load of greater than 50 people therefor, it is > classed an assembly. The planning dept. gave the business a C.U.P for an > occupant load of 45 people because of limited parking. > > > Here is the rub. In Redondo Beach if there is a change of occupancy to an > assembly fire sprinklers must be provided. Yes thats right, fire sprinklers. > According to the building dept. the business must run a fire service to the > middle unit in an otherwise unsprinklered strip mall. > > > Even though the planning dept is only allowing an occupant load of 45 the > building dept is stating that because the unit COULD be used as an assembly, > it must be called an assembly and therefor requires fire sprinklers. The > owner is REALLY upset. > > > To me this is UNREASONABLE and I am trying to help the business owner avoid > the fire sprinklers. > > > Any input on how to approach this would be appreciated. > > > Regards, > Owen Evans > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2886 - Release Date: 05/20/10 > 18:26:00 > > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
