Eric, NJ resolved that "problem", at least in residential by way of the residential site improvement standard and commercially by way of the 2006 IFC/NJ.
http://www.nj.gov/dca/divisions/codes/codreg/pdf_regs/njac_5_21.pdf http://www2.iccsafe.org/states/06NewJerseyFire/ John Drucker, CET Fire Protection Subcode Official Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector Fire Marshals Office Borough of Red Bank, NJ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eric Tysinger Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 3:55 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: hydrant spacing When I had to deal with this in South Florida, it was always a jurisdictional call. They all wanted something different depending on what hose was carried on the trucks. Although 300 was the most common, additional hydrants were often added to comply with their FDC to Hydrant spacings. Thanks, Eric Tysinger CET NICET III - 108988 Designer Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers, Inc. 4370 Motorsport Drive Concord, NC 28027 p: (704)782-3032 x1751 f: (704)795-6838 C: (239)633-9703 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 3:43 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: hydrant spacing Tom, Don't know if this has been answered. IFC addresses this to a certain extent. I'm paraphrasing probably more than I should, but for example, IFC-2006, 508.5.1 addresses the placement of hydrants for fire service use. Essentially, a portion of a building or facility is required to be within 600 ft. of a hydrant as measured around the building. 400 ft. for non-sprinklered. Regards, James L (Jim) Roberts, PE/SET| FLUOR | Principal Fire Protection Engineer - Central Engineering | [email protected] | IODC 20.5149 | O +1.864.281.5149 | www.fluor.com |---------+----------------------------------------> | | tom poisal | | | <[email protected]> | | | Sent by: | | | sprinklerforum-boun...@fires| | | prinkler.org | | | 07/13/2010 05:02 PM | | | Please respond to | | | sprinklerforum | |---------+----------------------------------------> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------| | | | | | To| | [email protected] | | cc| | | | Subject| | Re: | | | | | | | | | | | | | >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------| AS an an aside I can't find what a required distance between fire hydrants is, NFPA only says up to AHJ and FM is 300' On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Firestone, James < [email protected]> wrote: > Dear Geir > > The New Zealand Fire Service has published a Code of Practice for Fighting > Water Supply (NZS PAS 4509:2008) - which can be freely downloaded from our > website > > > http://www.fire.org.nz/Business-Fire-Safety/Building-Design/Pages/Fire-safet y-design.aspx > > Essentially there are two approaches you can take in this COP. A > prescriptive approach using Tables. Table 1 matches Building type/size > to a > water classification, while Table 2 stipulates the required fire > fighting water for this classification. > > Or you can use a fire engineering approach and match the (energy) quenching > efficiency of water to the size of the fire that the fire fighters > would be > faced with upon arrival. I have simplified this a lot just to get > across the > main idea. > > Basically in answer to your question we want to encourage building > owners to put the resource (water) where the risk is (which is within > the building)! Thus the recognised advance of a sprinkler system which catches > the fire whilst still small. > > So as a recognised trade-off, if a structure is sprinkler protected > (and just using the prescriptive method of the COP), then it only > requires an additional 25L/s fire fighting water. > > So the volume of (fire) water supplied to the building MUST be the > amount required for the sprinkler and the (operational) fire fighting > simultaneously. However as a caveat to this, if sprinklers are > installed we > do lend ourselves to negotiation on potentially allowing increased hydrant > distances, slightly reduced volumes (dependent upon risk, proximity to > a fire station, ease of fire fighting access around building, climatic > conditions, exposure protection requirements, etc.) where the building > is sited in a lower water serviced area than what is normally required > OR if the amount of water that is required to supply BOTH the > sprinkler system and > fire fighting is greater than that required for just fire fighting > (with no > sprinkler system present). The latter is a very rare case and usually more > an anomaly of the COP. > > Regards, James > > > James Firestone > Fire Engineer > National Headquarters, NZ Fire Service P. O. Box 9346, Wellington, NZ > Level 6, 5-7 Willeston St, Wellington, NZ Cell - 0274858056, DDI (04) > 4708011 [email protected] > > Fires are fast - home sprinklers are faster - don't delay inquire > about one > today - see http://homesprinklers.fire.org.nz and keep yourself safe > and NZ green. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Geir Jensen > Sent: Wednesday, 14 July 2010 01:59 > To: [email protected] > Subject: > > On which conditions does sprinkler substitute fire brigade water flow > requirements? Never? Cannot figure out by NFPA 1 Ch 18 and NFPA 13. > Sprinkler demand and hose demand are to be added, except for 50 % or > 75 % reduction as per NFPA 1 Ch 18? > > How does NFPA 13 "hose allowance" relate to "fire flow requirements > for buildings" (NFPA 1, 18.4)? Are they equal for a given sprinklered structure? > > Does sprinkler protection have any influence on water supply duration > requirements? Shall duration comply with NFPA 1 or NFPA 13 for sprinklered > structures? Are requirements to "hydrant water supply" and "fire flow > requirements for buildings" both influenced, if any at all? > > Please accept the above very basic questions. I am working on > guidelines for sprinkler trade offs. As guideline become > performance-based I need to know if your prescriptive standards > acknowledge sprinkler performance as is, > i.e. say reducing water supply requirements (flow and duration) to a level > sufficient for hose extinguishing of sprinkler controlled fires only. > > Geir > > Geir Jensen > COWI Fire > Technical Director > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected]<to%3asprinklerforum-requ...@fire sprinkler.org> > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This e-mail message has been scanned and cleared by MailMarshal > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------- > This e-mail message has been scanned and cleared by MailMarshal > --------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected]<to%3asprinklerforum-requ...@fire sprinkler.org> > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Tom Poisal, CET _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. 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