The interior of a wet-pipe system piping will look remarkably the same after
being installed after 30 years as it did on the day it was installed, so
whatever C factor you were comfortable with when new should be applicable
now. This is not true if the system has been used to flow water regularly
through the system piping.
Is this system being discussed connected to a municipal water supply once it
leaves the property or is the supply from a non-potable water source on
premises? If connected to a municipal supply, the need for the RPZ has
nothing to do with an additional connection to the underground for domestic
water into the building. If it is from a tank or pond, how is the owner
proposing to purify the fire water for domestic uses?
Garth
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thom" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 11:47 AM
Subject: RE: tapping fire lead in for domestic
Taping the fire lead if allowed by the water purveyor, will alter the calc
for the fire since now a RPZ must be installed on the riser after that tap
for domestic. A re-calc is the only appropriate thing to do. That is after
an internal inspection of the existing pipe to determine if the C is even
close to 120. (Clean smooth bore) If the interior is anything but smooth
it's just a guessing game, unless you run flow tests on each pipe segment.
Typically we see these abandoned grocery store when they are at least 30
yrs old, and they never have had any internal pipe inspection done.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
[email protected]
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 9:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: tapping fire lead in for domestic
We are remodeling an an old grocery store, being converted into a church.
The existing fire sprinkler is pipe schedule, 3 in lead in. Wet system,
alarm check valve with an anti freeze loop. Off of city supply.
Existing domestic supply is well water. The owner intends to tap the fire
main lead in to run 1" domestic.
My concern is that he is creating a cross connection with the fire
sprinkler water and anti freeze loop.
My secondary concern is tapping the fire sprinkler riser....should i
recommend hydraulic calcs since they are modifying the supply of this
existing pipe schedule system?
I intend to notify the owner of my concerns in writing and recommend he
consult with his Architect and Plumbing Engineer. Any recommendations?
Forrest Wilson
Cherokee Fire
Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
----- Reply message -----
From: "Ron Greenman" <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, Sep 24, 2010 10:26 am
Subject: Pool as a water source
To: <[email protected]>
You can also use the pool for a heat sink for heat pumps and use a
solar array to heat the pool to 50 degrees in winter (no freezing and
the optimum heat transfer temperature for heat pump efficiency.
Engineering kids. We're part of a group building a building. We don't
drive the project nor is our part of the project an entity in a
vacuum.
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 6:16 AM, Jamie.seidl <[email protected]>
wrote:
I've done it here in Charlotte. No problems out of it yet, but it was
just the secondary source. We had an issue recently on a project that
was a few years old where we had to prove the velocity at the roof top
pool with a supply calc for the lowest system. The health department
accepted it and they re-opened the pool the next week. I would stress 2
inlets. The pool contractor said that the largest inlet had a gpm
velocity limit of 1400 gpm? Maybe that was for both?
As far as a vortex plate, when we tested the pool, a vortex didn't
develop until we had less than 1' of water left, approx 40,000 gallons
already pumped, while my demand was around 32,000 gallons. I still sleep
well at night.
Jamie
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 24, 2010, at 8:12 AM, "Dewayne Martinez" <[email protected]>
wrote:
We have a owner that is requesting us to explore the possibility that a
indoor pool be used as a water source for the sprinkler system.
Anybody do this before? Seems like there would be too many problems
with the chlorine in the water damaging the system components.
Thanks,
Dewayne Martinez
Design Build Fire Protection
New Berlin, WI
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--
Ron Greenman
Instructor
Fire Protection Engineering Technology
Bates Technical College
1101 So. Yakima Ave.
Tacoma, WA 98405
[email protected]
http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/
253.680.7346
253.576.9700 (cell)
Member:
AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC
They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis
Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)
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