Chris, Maybe the best place to look is in the Northridge report. 250 failures. Most if not all were attachment failures. I don't remember if any fires were involved. Maybe one of the Californians remembers. If I remember tomorrow I have the report at work and I'll take a look. If you want you can send an email to remind me.
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Chris Cahill <[email protected]> wrote: > Curious question, has there ever been a loss because of the use of an older > standard assuming it complied with any ed.? So even with EQ were there > systems that had fires after earthquakes where the hangers failed and there > was a significant loss? Or were the failures just hanger issues but no > fires? And even then in EQ country is there anything requiring retrofit if > say it was built in '96? If there was some history of failure would we > expect the newer standards to address in Ch. 1 retroactivity? > > There are plenty of losses due to closed/inadequate water. Don't see that a > year issue. There are a few noted as system not designed for the hazard. > But many of these the original system was complaint but the hazard changed > to the system never upgraded. Or it was never right for the original > hazard. Again I don't see this as a year issue. > > Chris Cahill > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David > Blackwell > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:58 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Physical Science :) > > Has anyone on the list gotten feedback from their insurance carrier > regarding using an old code [like the 1996 edition mentioned in the email > below]? > > I'm guessing they wouldn't like you designing to such an old code minimum > which had inadequate minimum standards that were later fixed in newer > editions of the code. One glaring difference between 2010 & 1996 is in the > area of seismic protection which was upgraded after a couple of quakes in CA > demonstrated the code minimum requirements in that arena were insufficient. > If I were out in private practice I would be trying to design to the current > latest published editions so I didn't end up in court with a lawyer asking > me why I didn't use a more current edition... > > > > David W. S. Blackwell, II, PE, CFI-I, CFPE > Engineering > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Office of State Fire Marshal > 141 Monticello Trail > Columbia, SC 29203 > Phone: 803.896.9833 > Fax: 803.896.9806 > Email: [email protected] > OSFM Website: http://www.llr.state.sc.us/firemarshal.asp > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:56 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Physical Science :) > > Sorry but when doing in-depth code analysis', there is no way you could find > every bit of information needed in a tabbed book versus doing a digital > search unless you have all the time in the world. There is stuff buried in > these texts that is not in the index and unless you've stumbled across it > before and tagged it, you'd never find it. > > Digital is here, now, not waiting for the next generation. > > As far as the question concerning why NICET uses particular versions, it is > probably due to the amount of work involved with reworking a test. Plus not > all jurisdictions jump on the new Standard immediately upon its publication. > I still have many jurisdictions using the 2002 NFPA 13 and had one earlier > in the year that was still on the 1996 version. It would be a significant > task to develop a new test each time a new standard came out. > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Williams > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:50 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Physical Science :) > > We old timers are used to paper, but the next generation will > probably be much more geared to digital. Somehow NICET and others > will need to adapt. Agencies are not going to continue print issues > just for some open book testing agency. I agree that finding > information in a tabbed text is still a lot quicker than a computer > search. But perhaps testing agencies will have to provide computer > access to certain reference materials as a part of the computer > testing procedure. > > Brian, as far as your question, I have wondered that as well. Perhaps > they use a random number generator > > > At 09:21 AM 11/3/2010, you wrote: >>Here's a question for some of you veterans, how does NICET come up with > what >>year code will be on the test? I don't get why some of these codes are 2,3, >>and greater revisions behind the current one.... >> >>Brian Harris >>FDFP Inc. >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [email protected] >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George > Church >>Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:22 AM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: RE: Physical Science :) >> >>Its not as easy as it sounds to change a 30-year old certification program >>as you might think. >>While it's a PIA to drag around all the reference materials, you must also >>appreciate the numerous concerns and integrity requirements and > restrictions >>faced by any testing agency. They need to prevent theft of test questions, >>they need to make sure you are using a hand calculator rather than allowing >>the possibility you'll run a calc program on a PC or programmable >>calculator, that you know where to look things up based on familiarity with >>the references rather than rely on a word search, etc. >> >>NICET is moving along with PC-based testing at readily accessible testing >>centers nationwide, with open scheduling and instant results. It's a large >>undertaking with substantial volunteer contribution to make it work. To >>speed it along, participate and donate your time and energy to the industry >>that puts food on your table. >> >>NICET is also facing some competition in the market which may or may not >>produce other streamlining of the process, but it is what it is and the >>integrity of the process demands checking and validating the changes, and >>that all takes time. Think of the 4 years +/- some of us have been involved >>in the process, lugging ourselves to Alexandria, and -not to sound like the >>proverbial schoolteacher, but I remember borrowing references from the >>Atlanta fire marshal so I had to spend Fri afternoon going downtown, > lugging >>the books to the car, getting familiar with them Fri night, and lugging > them >>to the exam and on Monday AM back to City Hall. It builds character and >>memories, like then-mayor Andrew Young getting in the elevator with me Fri >>and observing what a fun weekend I must be stocking up for :) >> >>glc >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [email protected] >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>[email protected] >>Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 8:56 AM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: RE: Physical Science :) >> >>Really, all of our codes are now in digital format. Much easier to search >>and cheaper for the company. NICET needs to come into the 21st century > with >>this. It's just crazy lugging 30-40 lbs of reference books to a test. Had >>one test that was on 2nd floor and had to tote the load up the stairs. > Just >>plain ridiculous. >> >>Craig L. Prahl, CET >>Fire Protection >>CH2MHILL >>Lockwood Greene >>1500 International Drive >>Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >>Direct - 864.599.4102 >>Fax - 864.599.8439 >>CH2MHILL Extension 74102 >>[email protected] >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [email protected] >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd > Williams >>Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 7:08 PM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: Re: Physical Science :) >> >>And don't forget to put index tabs on your references and take a >>dictionary with you. >> >>What are they going to do when al this stuff is on our iPads? >> >> >>At 06:39 PM 11/2/2010, you wrote: >> >Same here, Brian. Of course I'm so old that when I took it with me >> >it was only one volume, not two. >> >-- >> > >> >PARSLEY CONSULTING >> > >> >Ken Wagoner, SET >> > >> >760.745.6181 voice >> > >> >760.745.0537 fax >> > >> >[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>e-mail >> > >> >www.ParsleyConsulting.com <http://www.ParsleyConsulting.com>website >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >On 11/2/2010 2:46 PM, Jamie.seidl wrote: >> >>The fire protection handbook. It's all I used. >> >> >> >>Jamie >> >>Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >>On Nov 2, 2010, at 5:08 PM, "Brian >> >>Harris"<[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >>>Any recommendations for good reference material for the Physical > Science >> >>>portion of the Nicet test? >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>Brian Harris >> >>> >> >>>First Defense Fire Protection >> >>> >> >>>11957 Ramah Church Road >> >>> >> >>>Huntersville, NC 28078 >> >>> >> >>>Phone: 704.948.3506 >> >>> >> >>>Fax: 704.948.3507 >> >>> >> >>>Nicet # 128476 >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>======= >> >>>Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >> >>>(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16210) >> >>>http://www.pctools.com/ >> >>>======= >> >>>_______________________________________________ >> >>>Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >>>[email protected] >> >>>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >>> >> >>>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>> >> >>>To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] >> >>>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >>[email protected] >> >>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> >> >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] >> >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >[email protected] >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >>Todd G. Williams, PE >>Fire Protection Design/Consulting >>Stonington, CT >>860.535.2080 >>www.fpdc.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> >> >> >> >>======= >>Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >>(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16220) >>http://www.pctools.com/ >>======= >> >> >> >> >> >>======= >>Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >>(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16220) >>http://www.pctools.com/ >>======= >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > Todd G. Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, CT > 860.535.2080 > www.fpdc.com > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
