I looked at the Northridge report this morning and it has nothing on fires, just attachment, hanger and bracing failures.
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Ron Greenman <[email protected]> wrote: > Chris, > > Maybe the best place to look is in the Northridge report. 250 > failures. Most if not all were attachment failures. I don't remember > if any fires were involved. Maybe one of the Californians remembers. > If I remember tomorrow I have the report at work and I'll take a look. > If you want you can send an email to remind me. > > On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Chris Cahill <[email protected]> wrote: >> Curious question, has there ever been a loss because of the use of an older >> standard assuming it complied with any ed.? So even with EQ were there >> systems that had fires after earthquakes where the hangers failed and there >> was a significant loss? Or were the failures just hanger issues but no >> fires? And even then in EQ country is there anything requiring retrofit if >> say it was built in '96? If there was some history of failure would we >> expect the newer standards to address in Ch. 1 retroactivity? >> >> There are plenty of losses due to closed/inadequate water. Don't see that a >> year issue. There are a few noted as system not designed for the hazard. >> But many of these the original system was complaint but the hazard changed >> to the system never upgraded. Or it was never right for the original >> hazard. Again I don't see this as a year issue. >> >> Chris Cahill >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David >> Blackwell >> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:58 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Physical Science :) >> >> Has anyone on the list gotten feedback from their insurance carrier >> regarding using an old code [like the 1996 edition mentioned in the email >> below]? >> >> I'm guessing they wouldn't like you designing to such an old code minimum >> which had inadequate minimum standards that were later fixed in newer >> editions of the code. One glaring difference between 2010 & 1996 is in the >> area of seismic protection which was upgraded after a couple of quakes in CA >> demonstrated the code minimum requirements in that arena were insufficient. >> If I were out in private practice I would be trying to design to the current >> latest published editions so I didn't end up in court with a lawyer asking >> me why I didn't use a more current edition... >> >> >> >> David W. S. Blackwell, II, PE, CFI-I, CFPE >> Engineering >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> Office of State Fire Marshal >> 141 Monticello Trail >> Columbia, SC 29203 >> Phone: 803.896.9833 >> Fax: 803.896.9806 >> Email: [email protected] >> OSFM Website: http://www.llr.state.sc.us/firemarshal.asp >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> [email protected] >> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:56 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Physical Science :) >> >> Sorry but when doing in-depth code analysis', there is no way you could find >> every bit of information needed in a tabbed book versus doing a digital >> search unless you have all the time in the world. There is stuff buried in >> these texts that is not in the index and unless you've stumbled across it >> before and tagged it, you'd never find it. >> >> Digital is here, now, not waiting for the next generation. >> >> As far as the question concerning why NICET uses particular versions, it is >> probably due to the amount of work involved with reworking a test. Plus not >> all jurisdictions jump on the new Standard immediately upon its publication. >> I still have many jurisdictions using the 2002 NFPA 13 and had one earlier >> in the year that was still on the 1996 version. It would be a significant >> task to develop a new test each time a new standard came out. >> >> Craig L. Prahl, CET >> Fire Protection >> CH2MHILL >> Lockwood Greene >> 1500 International Drive >> Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >> Direct - 864.599.4102 >> Fax - 864.599.8439 >> CH2MHILL Extension 74102 >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Williams >> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:50 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Physical Science :) >> >> We old timers are used to paper, but the next generation will >> probably be much more geared to digital. Somehow NICET and others >> will need to adapt. Agencies are not going to continue print issues >> just for some open book testing agency. I agree that finding >> information in a tabbed text is still a lot quicker than a computer >> search. But perhaps testing agencies will have to provide computer >> access to certain reference materials as a part of the computer >> testing procedure. >> >> Brian, as far as your question, I have wondered that as well. Perhaps >> they use a random number generator >> >> >> At 09:21 AM 11/3/2010, you wrote: >>>Here's a question for some of you veterans, how does NICET come up with >> what >>>year code will be on the test? I don't get why some of these codes are 2,3, >>>and greater revisions behind the current one.... >>> >>>Brian Harris >>>FDFP Inc. >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: [email protected] >>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George >> Church >>>Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:22 AM >>>To: [email protected] >>>Subject: RE: Physical Science :) >>> >>>Its not as easy as it sounds to change a 30-year old certification program >>>as you might think. >>>While it's a PIA to drag around all the reference materials, you must also >>>appreciate the numerous concerns and integrity requirements and >> restrictions >>>faced by any testing agency. They need to prevent theft of test questions, >>>they need to make sure you are using a hand calculator rather than allowing >>>the possibility you'll run a calc program on a PC or programmable >>>calculator, that you know where to look things up based on familiarity with >>>the references rather than rely on a word search, etc. >>> >>>NICET is moving along with PC-based testing at readily accessible testing >>>centers nationwide, with open scheduling and instant results. It's a large >>>undertaking with substantial volunteer contribution to make it work. To >>>speed it along, participate and donate your time and energy to the industry >>>that puts food on your table. >>> >>>NICET is also facing some competition in the market which may or may not >>>produce other streamlining of the process, but it is what it is and the >>>integrity of the process demands checking and validating the changes, and >>>that all takes time. Think of the 4 years +/- some of us have been involved >>>in the process, lugging ourselves to Alexandria, and -not to sound like the >>>proverbial schoolteacher, but I remember borrowing references from the >>>Atlanta fire marshal so I had to spend Fri afternoon going downtown, >> lugging >>>the books to the car, getting familiar with them Fri night, and lugging >> them >>>to the exam and on Monday AM back to City Hall. It builds character and >>>memories, like then-mayor Andrew Young getting in the elevator with me Fri >>>and observing what a fun weekend I must be stocking up for :) >>> >>>glc >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: [email protected] >>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>>[email protected] >>>Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 8:56 AM >>>To: [email protected] >>>Subject: RE: Physical Science :) >>> >>>Really, all of our codes are now in digital format. Much easier to search >>>and cheaper for the company. NICET needs to come into the 21st century >> with >>>this. It's just crazy lugging 30-40 lbs of reference books to a test. Had >>>one test that was on 2nd floor and had to tote the load up the stairs. >> Just >>>plain ridiculous. >>> >>>Craig L. Prahl, CET >>>Fire Protection >>>CH2MHILL >>>Lockwood Greene >>>1500 International Drive >>>Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >>>Direct - 864.599.4102 >>>Fax - 864.599.8439 >>>CH2MHILL Extension 74102 >>>[email protected] >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: [email protected] >>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd >> Williams >>>Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 7:08 PM >>>To: [email protected] >>>Subject: Re: Physical Science :) >>> >>>And don't forget to put index tabs on your references and take a >>>dictionary with you. >>> >>>What are they going to do when al this stuff is on our iPads? >>> >>> >>>At 06:39 PM 11/2/2010, you wrote: >>> >Same here, Brian. Of course I'm so old that when I took it with me >>> >it was only one volume, not two. >>> >-- >>> > >>> >PARSLEY CONSULTING >>> > >>> >Ken Wagoner, SET >>> > >>> >760.745.6181 voice >>> > >>> >760.745.0537 fax >>> > >>> >[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>e-mail >>> > >>> >www.ParsleyConsulting.com <http://www.ParsleyConsulting.com>website >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >On 11/2/2010 2:46 PM, Jamie.seidl wrote: >>> >>The fire protection handbook. It's all I used. >>> >> >>> >>Jamie >>> >>Sent from my iPhone >>> >> >>> >>On Nov 2, 2010, at 5:08 PM, "Brian >>> >>Harris"<[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>>Any recommendations for good reference material for the Physical >> Science >>> >>>portion of the Nicet test? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Brian Harris >>> >>> >>> >>>First Defense Fire Protection >>> >>> >>> >>>11957 Ramah Church Road >>> >>> >>> >>>Huntersville, NC 28078 >>> >>> >>> >>>Phone: 704.948.3506 >>> >>> >>> >>>Fax: 704.948.3507 >>> >>> >>> >>>Nicet # 128476 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>======= >>> >>>Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >>> >>>(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16210) >>> >>>http://www.pctools.com/ >>> >>>======= >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>> >>>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> >>>[email protected] >>> >>>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>> >>> >>>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>>To Unsubscribe, send an email >> to:[email protected] >>> >>>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>> >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> >>[email protected] >>> >>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >> >>> >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >> >>> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email >> to:[email protected] >>> >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >_______________________________________________ >>> >Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> >[email protected] >>> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> > >>> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> > >>> >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>>Todd G. Williams, PE >>>Fire Protection Design/Consulting >>>Stonington, CT >>>860.535.2080 >>>www.fpdc.com >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>[email protected] >>>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>[email protected] >>>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>[email protected] >>>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>======= >>>Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >>>(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16220) >>>http://www.pctools.com/ >>>======= >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>======= >>>Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >>>(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16220) >>>http://www.pctools.com/ >>>======= >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>[email protected] >>>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> Todd G. Williams, PE >> Fire Protection Design/Consulting >> Stonington, CT >> 860.535.2080 >> www.fpdc.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
