Yes; and, it is important to note that those are different types of exemptions:
The 903.2 exemption applies only to TELECOMMUNICATION BUILDINGS, not
buildings which may contain some accessory telecommunication room(s).
The IBC 903.3.1.1.1 exemptions apply to all NFPA 13 systems and are
actually more limiting than they appear on first read (esp. #2). For a much
better understanding of each exemption you will need to have the IBC with
commentary and read the commentary which describes the intent.
PS - If you are in an area that NFPA 75 is applicable, be sure to check out
(2003) NFPA 75 8.1.1 [or the equivalent in the applicable edition] which
addresses fire protection sprinkler systems.
David W. S. Blackwell, II, PE, CFI-I, CFPE
Engineering
----------------------------------------------------------------
Office of State Fire Marshal
141 Monticello Trail
Columbia, SC 29203
Phone: 803.896.9833
Fax: 803.896.9806
Email: [email protected]
OSFM Website: http://www.llr.state.sc.us/firemarshal.asp
----------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Drucker
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 1:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Flow Test With City Pump
Electrical Rooms.....which ones ? There's two code sections
2009 IBC
[F] 903.2 Where required.
Exception: Spaces or areas in TELECOMMUNICATIONS BUILDINGS USED EXCLUSIVELY
FOR TELECOMMUNICATIONS EQUIPMENT, associated electrical power distribution
equipment, batteries and standby engines, provided those spaces or areas are
equipped throughout with an automatic smoke detection system in accordance
with Section 907.2 and are separated from the remainder of the building by
not less than 1-hour fire barriers constructed in accordance with Section
707 or not less than 2-hour horizontal assemblies constructed in accordance
with Section 712, or both.
[F] 903.3.1.1.1 Exempt locations.
Automatic sprinklers shall not be required in the following rooms or areas
where such rooms or areas are protected with an approved automatic fire
detection system in accordance with Section 907.2 that will respond to
visible or invisible particles of combustion. Sprinklers shall not be
omitted from any room merely because it is damp, of fire-resistance-rated
construction OR CONTAINS ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT.
Hope that helps,
John Drucker, CET
Fire Protection Subcode Official
Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector
Fire Marshals Office
Borough of Red Bank, NJ
PS, I still can't believe I got away with that code flub.
Not the official position of any agency, association, committee or
otherwise. Verify all applications and approvals with your local authority
having jurisdiction.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
[email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 1:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Flow Test With City Pump
MAN! How did I miss that freebie? Just slack I guess.
Water supplies and sprinklers in electrical rooms are two hot button topics
I deal with on almost every project. I still haven't figured out how to
input "PLENTY" under GPM and "LOTS" under psi in my hyd. Calcs. But I do
understand that there is Plenty of water and it's under Lots of pressure on
almost every site. I just overcomplicate things I guess by being nit-picky
and asking for NUMBERS. ;)
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
CH2MHILL Extension 74102
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Drucker
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 1:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Flow Test With City Pump
Craig,
I'm surprised you didn't pick up my incorrect reference to NFPA-"72" :-)
In any case;
Approved; 2010 NFPA-13 3.2.1 Approved. Acceptable to the authority having
jurisdiction.
Period of Ordinary Demand; That's a little trickier but no less solvable.
2010 NFPA-13 1.2.1 "The purpose of this standard shall be to provide a
reasonable degree of protection for life and property from fire through
standardization of design, installation, and testing requirements for
sprinkler systems, including private fire service mains, based on sound
engineering principles, test data, and field experience."
In this AHJ's opinion ordinary demand is something other than ISO fire flow
(fire department suppression). Most water purveyors can provide you with
utilization flow data for any given time and date. Obviously it needs to be
current.
The key is the pressure the water purveyor strives to achieve in other than
ISO fire flow conditions. It really doesn't matter how many pumps they have
once you know the assured normal operating pressure. Of course there could
be a catastrophe and the IBC identifies those situations by requiring an
onsite secondary water supply.
Sounds like this pump is for ISO fire flow and that may not be achieved from
sprinkler system demand.
Hope that helps,
John Drucker, CET
Fire Protection Subcode Official
Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector
Fire Marshals Office
Borough of Red Bank, NJ
Not the official position of any agency, association, committee or
otherwise. Verify all applications and approvals with your local authority
having jurisdiction.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
[email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 12:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Flow Test With City Pump
Well that's leaves an awful lot of interpretation.
What water flow test data is applicable, with the city pump or without?
What is the other approved methods? Approved by whom?
Depending on the system, and it's users, "period of ordinary demand" may be
very hard to define.
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
CH2MHILL Extension 74102
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Drucker
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 12:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Flow Test With City Pump
2010 NFPA-72 23.2.1.2 "The volume and pressure of a public water supply
shall be determined from waterflow test data or other approved method."
2010 NFPA-291 4.2.1 "Tests should be made during a period of ordinary
demand."
Hope that helps,
John Drucker, CET
Fire Protection Subcode Official
Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector
Fire Marshals Office
Borough of Red Bank, NJ
Not the official position of any agency, association, committee or
otherwise. Verify all applications and approvals with your local authority
having jurisdiction.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ed Kramer
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 11:53 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Flow Test With City Pump
I'll second Craig's post. There's a light industrial area in a nearby town
that has the same water supply characteristics - open a hydrant for a flow
test, city pumps kick on, and residual is higher than the static.
The real problem is you have no way of knowing how much water must flow out
the fire hydrant (or out open sprinklers on the sprinkler system) to kick
the pump on. The city may be able to tell you at what pressure drop, etc
the pump kicks on. But that by itself is essentially useless because you
don't know how much water is being consumed by other end-users at the time
of the flow test or at the time of a fire.
Ask to perform a new flow test with city pump turned off. The new flow test
(no pump) may be conservative, but as Craig points out, it may also be
accurate for the quantity of water your sprinkler system will flow.
Ed Kramer
Littleton, CO
>
> How are the city pumps started, based on pressure drop? Consider the
> possibility that under a low flow condition of say 1-5 heads there may
> not be a significant pressure drop or flow large enough to start the
> city pumps. In that case I'd suggest use the non-boosted pressures and
> flow.
>
> That would be your worst case. Now also depending on what kind of
> system you have say it's a LH system, you may still not have enough flow
> or pressure to start the city pumps even if you use the entire remote
> area plus hose stream.
>
> You might want to do two calcs depending on what you find out about the
> city pump's starting sequence because someone may want to know if the
> system would work based on worst case of no city pumps operating.
>
> Plug in 100 psi static and 110 psi residual and see if you calc program
> doesn't flag that as an irregularity.
>
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