Craig, I'm surprised you didn't pick up my incorrect reference to NFPA-"72" :-)
In any case; Approved; 2010 NFPA-13 3.2.1 Approved. Acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction. Period of Ordinary Demand; That's a little trickier but no less solvable. 2010 NFPA-13 1.2.1 "The purpose of this standard shall be to provide a reasonable degree of protection for life and property from fire through standardization of design, installation, and testing requirements for sprinkler systems, including private fire service mains, based on sound engineering principles, test data, and field experience." In this AHJ's opinion ordinary demand is something other than ISO fire flow (fire department suppression). Most water purveyors can provide you with utilization flow data for any given time and date. Obviously it needs to be current. The key is the pressure the water purveyor strives to achieve in other than ISO fire flow conditions. It really doesnt matter how many pumps they have once you know the assured normal operating pressure. Of course there could be a catastrophe and the IBC identifies those situations by requiring an onsite secondary water supply. Sounds like this pump is for ISO fire flow and that may not be achieved from sprinkler system demand. Hope that helps, John Drucker, CET Fire Protection Subcode Official Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector Fire Marshals Office Borough of Red Bank, NJ Not the official position of any agency, association, committee or otherwise. Verify all applications and approvals with your local authority having jurisdiction. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 12:41 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Flow Test With City Pump Well that's leaves an awful lot of interpretation. What water flow test data is applicable, with the city pump or without? What is the other approved methods? Approved by whom? Depending on the system, and it's users, "period of ordinary demand" may be very hard to define. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Drucker Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 12:14 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Flow Test With City Pump 2010 NFPA-72 23.2.1.2 "The volume and pressure of a public water supply shall be determined from waterflow test data or other approved method." 2010 NFPA-291 4.2.1 "Tests should be made during a period of ordinary demand." Hope that helps, John Drucker, CET Fire Protection Subcode Official Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector Fire Marshals Office Borough of Red Bank, NJ Not the official position of any agency, association, committee or otherwise. Verify all applications and approvals with your local authority having jurisdiction. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ed Kramer Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 11:53 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Flow Test With City Pump I'll second Craig's post. There's a light industrial area in a nearby town that has the same water supply characteristics - open a hydrant for a flow test, city pumps kick on, and residual is higher than the static. The real problem is you have no way of knowing how much water must flow out the fire hydrant (or out open sprinklers on the sprinkler system) to kick the pump on. The city may be able to tell you at what pressure drop, etc the pump kicks on. But that by itself is essentially useless because you don't know how much water is being consumed by other end-users at the time of the flow test or at the time of a fire. Ask to perform a new flow test with city pump turned off. The new flow test (no pump) may be conservative, but as Craig points out, it may also be accurate for the quantity of water your sprinkler system will flow. Ed Kramer Littleton, CO > > How are the city pumps started, based on pressure drop? Consider the > possibility that under a low flow condition of say 1-5 heads there may > not be a significant pressure drop or flow large enough to start the > city pumps. In that case I'd suggest use the non-boosted pressures and > flow. > > That would be your worst case. Now also depending on what kind of > system you have say it's a LH system, you may still not have enough flow > or pressure to start the city pumps even if you use the entire remote > area plus hose stream. > > You might want to do two calcs depending on what you find out about the > city pump's starting sequence because someone may want to know if the > system would work based on worst case of no city pumps operating. > > Plug in 100 psi static and 110 psi residual and see if you calc program > doesn't flag that as an irregularity. > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
