Folks, The Commissioning Industry is gaining BIG ground as real BIM approaches. Cx is easier to implement than the total BIM process and so it will gain ground faster than BIM, and you can see how quickly the idea of having BIM is growing. Everyone is using the catch phrase "BIM" when we are still many steps away from truly having it. But the ball is rolling and will onyl gain speed. Cx will be a HUGE component to a real BIM project and is a natural fit into the process. In fact the folks pushing BIM are also pushing Cx (in spite of what the green folks tell ya...). The National Institute of Building Sciences (NIBS) is the big mover and PECO is all on board too. ASHRAE had taken the lead and now NFPA is coming late to the game. But they are definitely gonna play. The NFPA Standards Council will likely vote this week on whether to allow the "integrated testing" standard to separate from the "commissioning" recommended practice. This will let the Cx and the testing be develo ped together but separate. And after being in some of THOSE Committee meetings, I can tell you, "that's a good thing!"
It should be recognized that the above is my opinion as a member of the NFPA, and has not been processed as a formal interpretation in accordance with the NFPA Regulations Governing Committee Projects and should therefore not be considered, nor relied upon, as the official position of the the NFPA, nor any of their technical committees. Sincerely, Cecil Bilbo Academy of Fire Sprinkler Technology Champaign, IL 217.607.0325 www.sprinkleracademy.com ce...@sprinkleracademy.com OUR STUDENTS SAVE LIVES!! > From: cl...@fire-design.com > To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > Subject: RE: Cx > Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 16:38:19 -0600 > > Craig, > > My guess is 'Commissioning'. > > Cliff Whitfield, SET > President > Fire Design, Inc. > 3784 Holly Ridge Trail > Marianna, FL 32448 > Ph: 850-526-1886 > Fx: 850-526-1884 > > cl...@fire-design.com > www.fire-design.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of > craig.pr...@ch2m.com > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 4:31 PM > To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > Subject: RE: Cx > > CX? > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > craig.pr...@ch2m.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 5:18 PM > To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > Subject: Cx > > Understand still no LEED points for sprinklers and we haven't released the > RP for Cx and Integrated Testing yet..... > So without points and without a procedure to follow, I think we're talking > infancy. > > However, I live in the sticks- but I do get out occasionally ;) and > occasionally communicate with others in the business when we venture across > the county line :) > I'm not hearing anything approaching Cx being mainstream. > > George Church > Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. > PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 > 877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax > g...@rowesprinkler.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 3:50 PM > To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > Subject: Re: As = L x S > > WHEN? IF.. > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Thom <tmcma...@firetechinc.com> wrote: > > Just a follow up on "AS Built" drawings, won't they become "Common" > > practice as NFPA 3 Commissioning becomes more common??? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org > > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George > > Church > > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:04 PM > > To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > > Subject: RE: As = L x S > > > > Pain in ... > > Similar to badge heavy in this usage. > > > > George Church > > Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. > > PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 > > 877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax > > g...@rowesprinkler.com > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org > > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brad > > Casterline > > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:44 PM > > To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > > Subject: RE: As = L x S > > > > All true George, and maybe I worry a little too much, but when Gerzayn > > mentioned "Best Practice", the idea of not all heads ending up exactly > > as planned occurred to me. I left out the part about calcing all > > sched. 40 and figuring total pressure at all flowing outlets, not just > > a few! Have you ever had to "check your back pockets", because you > > still needed a little more? :) What does PIA stand for, can you say in > public? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: George Church [mailto:g...@rowesprinkler.com] > > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:28 PM > > To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > > Subject: RE: As = L x S > > > > In all seriousness, I find submission of AsBuilts in this industry as > > the exception rather than the rule, and the likelihood of AsBuilt > > Calcs even more remote, absent a contractual obligation and an > > engineer either smart enough or PIA enough to followup. > > > > > > > > > > Not saying they aren't a great idea for those whose systems don't > > closely resemble the original layout, just saying that it isn't > > exactly a mainstream issue. Absent buildings burning to the ground > > and/or people dying due to improper installation, we don't need to add > > the cost and if you want to see a contractor avoid something, how > > about taking the chance that their calc will indicate they need to go > > back into t a recently completed project and make changes! Now the > > building is occupied, now the drywall ceiling is up and tested- I can > > tell you the GC isn't looking to enforce since it'll cause hardship for > all. > > > > George Church > > Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. > > PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 > > 877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax > > g...@rowesprinkler.com > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org > > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brad > > Casterline > > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:17 AM > > To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > > Subject: RE: As = L x S > > > > Something else you might want to keep in mind is the idea of "AS-BUILT > > CALCULATIONS". Say you calc an Ord. Haz. II at 104 SF/head because the > > heads are 6'-6" from one wall and 4'-0" from another. But there is a > > conduit at 4'-0". The fitter knows 130 SF max for standard coverage > > heads in Ord. Haz., so 5'-0" is fine. You might have a little trouble > > with the as-built calcs in this case! > > > > ******************************************* > > Good morning. > > Thanks to all of you for your great answers. > > I see this in my first training with AFSA in 2004 (great raining) but > > once you are in the field, you have a lot of questions. > > I see a lot of times some designers who use in all cases the maximum > > coverage per sprinkler to do their hydraulic calculations, and when I > > ask them about the "As", they tell me that us the maximum coverage > > (based on the hazard classification) is a "Best Practice" because you > > do not need to find what is the largest sprinkler coverage in the hole > > system. With this forum, now I know I always need to use the maximum > > "As" in my most hydraulic demanding area, and that value will be used for > the calcs. > > Regards and thanks to all of you. > > > > Gerzayn Fuentes > > CEPI.mx > > Mexico > > Tel +52 (81) 17660800 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > > to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > > to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > > to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > > to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > > to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > rgreen...@bates.ctc.edu > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, > essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
