If the system is expected to be in accordance with a newer edition of NFPA 14, it is required that any sprinkler connection to a standpipe be furnished with a shut-off valve; if it's in accordance with 2003 or later it has to be a control valve and a check valve. Not necessarily a full floor control, but a sectional shutoff at least.
SML -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 2:20 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Combination standpipe riser & hose flows No, they would be of no value. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ronl.Fletcher Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:17 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Combination standpipe riser & hose flows Automatic dry combination standpipe? Do you have a floor control assembly for the sprinkler system on each level? Ron Fletcher Aero Automatic Phoenix, AZ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 1:43 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Combination standpipe riser & hose flows So if I'm clear on this,you have a combination dry automatic standpipe that also feeds the dry sprinkler system,all on the same system? Lamar Vaughn,SET On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 4:29 PM, [email protected] wrote: > The Class I's work by themselves. > > But I do have all of this on one common riser. > If I add the most remote 1.5" hose reel at 65 psi and 50 gpm to the > sprinkler demand, I'm 12 lbs over my available. > > Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve > Leyton > Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:25 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Combination standpipe riser & hose flows > > That sounds okay to me. If you can make the Class I's work, then the > Class II's should as well, eh? > > SML > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 1:09 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Combination standpipe riser & hose flows > > Not considered a high rise. Supply is automatic. > > I've calc'd the standpipe alone and can make it work from the > automatic source (fire pumps from 1MM gallon on-site storage water > tank) > > I can make the sprinklers by themselves work from the same source. > > It's just if they are put together that it won't work. Not enough > pressure. > > Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve > Leyton > Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:03 PM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: RE: Combination standpipe riser & hose flows > > Is the building considered a high-rise? Is the Class I standpipe > system an automatic or manual water supply? > The collective intent of 13 and 14 is that you have to hydraulically > prove the most demanding condition(s) of the sprinkler and standpipe > systems individually, but not concurrently. So if you're > hydraulically calculating the Class I standpipe component you need to > know if you're calculating from the automatic source or the FDC > (manual system). To add Class II components, you will have to do an > automatic calculation in accordance with 14. For the sprinklers, you > would design hydraulically per 13. Contrary to popular practice, > you don't have to take an inside hose when you have a sprinkler > system, only when you have hose valves supplied by a sprinkler system > that are not considered a standpipe system. > > The foregoing is my opinion only and does not necessarily represent > the opinion or intent of the NFPA 14 Technical Committee on Standpipe > and Hose Systems. > > Steve Leyton > Protection Design & Consulting > San Diego, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 12:56 PM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: Combination standpipe riser & hose flows > > Admittedly I'm kind of at an impasse. > I've got a 4 level open process structure. Top level is about 85ft > above grade. Non-occupied. The structure is provided with a dry > sprinkler system and has 2.5" hose outlets at intermediate landings. > The owner has requested 1.5" hose reels at each floor for their > responders. > The area of the upper floor is only about 1400 sq. ft. Due to > obstructions and some equipment that requires impingment protection > the number of heads flowing is about 33. > > The structure is fully sprinklered. > > When calculating the sprinkler flow I'm trying to decipher the text in > NFPA 13 and 14 (2010) concerning how to include or not, the flow and > pressure required for the 2.5" hose connections. > > If I flow 500 gpm through the top two 2.5" valves I'm good. > > If I have to provide for 250 gpm in addition to the sprinkler flow I'm > good. > > Where I'm in the toilet is if I have to provide that 2.5" valve at 250 > gpm AND at 100 psi. > 13 makes it sound like I don't have to include the hose flow if my > sprinkler flow is the higher value NFPA 13-2010 12.8.5(2) but this is > referring to wet system, no reference to dry systems. > But if that is true, and I don't have to include the extra hose flow, > do I still need to provide 100 psi at that outlet? > Am I missing something here? > > Is it assumed there will be simultaneous flow of the 2.5" hose AND > sprinklers? > > > Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
