It's for all systems. If it's a dry automatic standpipe system then you have a dry pipe valve at the base of the riser, correct? Downstream from there, except for where the FDC connects, NFPA 14 does not discriminate between wet and dry systems, at least nothing that comes immediately to mind.
The foregoing is my opinion only and does not necessarily represent the opinion or intent of the NFPA 14 Technical Committee on Standpipe and Hose Systems. Steve Leyton Protection Design & Consulting San Diego, CA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:15 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Combination standpipe riser & hose flows But is that for wet systems? For a dry system such as this the shut off valves and check valves would serve no purpose. The system is either totally flooded due to head(s) fusing or it's dry. For the application I have, there is no real building code correlation to an occupied mult-story buildings. These structures are basically big machines. Miles of pipe, vessels, pumps, and other equipment all jam packed into half the space it ought to occupy. There are no walls, the upper level has equipment on it exposed to the sky. The challenge of laying out a sprinkler system is often beyond imagination. Eveyone is clamoring for every cubic inch of space to put their stuff. The red pipe, nobody thinks about that. Just another day in paradise. :) Craig Prahl CH2MHILL/SPB 864-599-4102 ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton [[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 6:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Combination standpipe riser & hose flows If the system is expected to be in accordance with a newer edition of NFPA 14, it is required that any sprinkler connection to a standpipe be furnished with a shut-off valve; if it's in accordance with 2003 or later it has to be a control valve and a check valve. Not necessarily a full floor control, but a sectional shutoff at least. SML -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 2:20 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Combination standpipe riser & hose flows No, they would be of no value. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ronl.Fletcher Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:17 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Combination standpipe riser & hose flows Automatic dry combination standpipe? Do you have a floor control assembly for the sprinkler system on each level? Ron Fletcher Aero Automatic Phoenix, AZ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 1:43 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Combination standpipe riser & hose flows So if I'm clear on this,you have a combination dry automatic standpipe that also feeds the dry sprinkler system,all on the same system? Lamar Vaughn,SET On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 4:29 PM, [email protected] wrote: > The Class I's work by themselves. > > But I do have all of this on one common riser. > If I add the most remote 1.5" hose reel at 65 psi and 50 gpm to the > sprinkler demand, I'm 12 lbs over my available. > > Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve > Leyton > Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:25 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Combination standpipe riser & hose flows > > That sounds okay to me. If you can make the Class I's work, then the > Class II's should as well, eh? > > SML > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 1:09 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Combination standpipe riser & hose flows > > Not considered a high rise. Supply is automatic. > > I've calc'd the standpipe alone and can make it work from the > automatic source (fire pumps from 1MM gallon on-site storage water > tank) > > I can make the sprinklers by themselves work from the same source. > > It's just if they are put together that it won't work. Not enough > pressure. > > Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve > Leyton > Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:03 PM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: RE: Combination standpipe riser & hose flows > > Is the building considered a high-rise? Is the Class I standpipe > system an automatic or manual water supply? > The collective intent of 13 and 14 is that you have to hydraulically > prove the most demanding condition(s) of the sprinkler and standpipe > systems individually, but not concurrently. So if you're > hydraulically calculating the Class I standpipe component you need to > know if you're calculating from the automatic source or the FDC > (manual system). To add Class II components, you will have to do an > automatic calculation in accordance with 14. For the sprinklers, you > would design hydraulically per 13. Contrary to popular practice, > you don't have to take an inside hose when you have a sprinkler > system, only when you have hose valves supplied by a sprinkler system > that are not considered a standpipe system. > > The foregoing is my opinion only and does not necessarily represent > the opinion or intent of the NFPA 14 Technical Committee on Standpipe > and Hose Systems. > > Steve Leyton > Protection Design & Consulting > San Diego, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 12:56 PM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: Combination standpipe riser & hose flows > > Admittedly I'm kind of at an impasse. > I've got a 4 level open process structure. Top level is about 85ft > above grade. Non-occupied. The structure is provided with a dry > sprinkler system and has 2.5" hose outlets at intermediate landings. > The owner has requested 1.5" hose reels at each floor for their > responders. > The area of the upper floor is only about 1400 sq. ft. Due to > obstructions and some equipment that requires impingment protection > the number of heads flowing is about 33. > > The structure is fully sprinklered. > > When calculating the sprinkler flow I'm trying to decipher the text in > NFPA 13 and 14 (2010) concerning how to include or not, the flow and > pressure required for the 2.5" hose connections. > > If I flow 500 gpm through the top two 2.5" valves I'm good. > > If I have to provide for 250 gpm in addition to the sprinkler flow I'm > good. > > Where I'm in the toilet is if I have to provide that 2.5" valve at 250 > gpm AND at 100 psi. > 13 makes it sound like I don't have to include the hose flow if my > sprinkler flow is the higher value NFPA 13-2010 12.8.5(2) but this is > referring to wet system, no reference to dry systems. > But if that is true, and I don't have to include the extra hose flow, > do I still need to provide 100 psi at that outlet? > Am I missing something here? > > Is it assumed there will be simultaneous flow of the 2.5" hose AND > sprinklers? > > > Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
