Whoa. Is this issue about the type of SYSTEM or the type of HEADS ? John Drucker - Mobile Email
----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Sent: Tue Nov 01 12:48:37 2011 Subject: RE: Residential Sprinkler in I-2 Correct but not a 13-R system in I-2. Arthur Tiroly ATCO Fire Protection Design -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:38 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Residential Sprinkler in I-2 Yes, but 407.2 permits residential sprinklers for I-2. Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Support Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 "Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time" -----Original Message----- From: Art Tiroly [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:29 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Residential Sprinkler in I-2 903.2.5 says it only applies to I-1 therefore a full 13 system is required for I-2 IMHO. Arthur Tiroly ATCO Fire Protection Design -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:14 PM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: RE: Residential Sprinkler in I-2 One more IMPORTANT paragraph!!! SECTION 407 GROUP I-2 I still stand that an NFPA 13 system with Residential sprinklers are permitted in Group I-2 and that neither NFPA 13D nor 13R are permitted for Group I-2 based on paragraph 903.2.5. See also 903.3.1.2 which states: NFPA 13R sprinkler systems. Automatic sprinkler systems in Group R occupancies up to and including four stories in height shall be permitted to be installed throughout in accordance with NFPA 13R. [F] Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Support Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 Travis, I-2 (Institutional - Not Capable of Self Preservation); versus I-1 (Institutional - Capable of Responding to an emergency situation without physical assistance from staff); versus R (Residential - Capable of Self Evacuation and or Capable of Responding to an emergency situation without physical assistance from staff) The "Capable of Responding to an emergency situation without physical assistance from staff" is why 13R and 13D is allowed in I-1 as well as R. As for I-2, 13R and 13D are not stipulated in the Building Code as alternatives to 13. But your question is regarding the use of residential sprinklers on 13 systems. Heres the code sections; 308.3 Group I-2. This occupancy shall include buildings and structures used for medical, surgical, psychiatric, nursing or custodial care for persons WHO ARE NOT CAPABLE OF SELF-PRESERVATION. This group shall include, but not be limited to, the following: Child care facilities Detoxification facilities Hospitals Mental hospitals Nursing home 308.2 Group I-1. This occupancy shall include buildings, structures or parts thereof housing more than 16 persons, on a 24-hour basis, who because of age, mental disability or other reasons, live in a supervised residential environment that provides personal care services. The occupants are CAPABLE OF RESPONDING TO AN EMERGENCY SITUATION WITHOUT PHYSICAL ASSISTANCE FROM STAFF. This group shall include, but not be limited to, the following: Alcohol and drug centers Assisted living facilities Congregate care facilities Convalescent facilities Group homes Halfway houses Residential board and care facilities Social rehabilitation facilities 310.1 Residential Group R. Residential Group R includes, among others, the use of a building or structure, or a portion thereof, for sleeping purposes when NOT CLASSIFIED AS AN INSTITUTIONAL GROUP I OR WHEN NOT REGULATED BY THE INTERNATIONAL RESIDENTIAL CODE in accordance with Section 101.2. RESIDENTIAL CARE/ASSISTED LIVING FACILITIES. A building or part thereof housing persons, on a 24-hour basis, who because of age, mental disability or other reasons, live in a supervised residential environment which provides personal care services. The occupants are CAPABLE OF RESPONDING TO AN EMERGENCY SITUATION WITHOUT PHYSICAL ASSISTANCE FROM STAFF. NFPA-13 (2007) IBC Chapter 35 Reference Standard 6.2.4.1 Residential Sprinklers. Residential sprinklers shall be permitted to be LISTED for portions of RESIDENTIAL occupancies as defined in 8.4.5.1. 8.4.5.1 Residential sprinklers shall be permitted in DWELLING UNITS and their adjoining corridors, provided they are INSTALLED IN CONFORMANCE WITH THEIR LISTING. >From two of the larger manufacturers; 1) "XXXXXXXX residential sprinklers utilize a fast response thermal element and are intended for use in only wet-pipe residential sprinkler systems designed in accordance with the following NFPA standards: NFPA 13D, Installation of Sprinkler Systems for One-and Two-Family Dwellings and Manufactured Homes; NFPA 13R, Installation of Sprinkler Systems for Residential Occupancies Up to and Including Four Stories in Height; and for the RESIDENTIAL PORTIONS of any occupancy as permitted by NFPA 13, Installation of Sprinkler Systems." 2) "The XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXXXX Series XXXXX Residential Pendent Sprinklers (XXXXXX) are decorative, fast response, frangible bulb sprinklers DESIGNED FOR USE IN RESIDENTIAL OCCUPANCIES SUCH AS HOMES, APARTMENTS, DORMITORIES, AND HOTELS." Keep in mind that modern codes and standards are typically permissive versus prohibitive language. Hope that helps, John Drucker, CET Fire Protection Subcode Official Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector Fire Marshals Office Borough of Red Bank, NJ Not the official position of any agency, association, committee or otherwise. Obtain required applications, permits, inspections and approvals from Authority(s) Having Jurisdiction. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Travis Mack, SET Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 11:28 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Residential Sprinkler in I-2 Is there anything in NFPA 13 that states you can NOT use residential sprinklers in an I-2 occupancy? We have done these many times, but I am getting rejected from a local AHJ that says you can't use residential sprinklers in an I-2 occupancy. This is an identical building to a project that was done about 3 miles away in an adjacent jurisdiction without any issues. I have presented him with: 6.2.4.1 Residential Sprinklers. *Residential sprinklers shall be permitted to be listed for portions of residential occupancies as defined in 8.4.5.1.* 8.4.5.1* *Residential sprinklers shall be permitted in dwelling units and their adjoining corridors, provided they are installed in conformance with their listing*. 3.3.8 Dwelling Unit. One or more rooms arranged for the use of one or more individuals living together, as in a single housekeeping unit normally having cooking, living, sanitary, and sleeping facilities. For purposes of this standard, dwelling unit includes hotel rooms, dormitory rooms, apartments, condominiums,*sleeping rooms in nursing homes, and similar living units*. -- Please feel free to call if you have any questions or comments. Sincerely, Travis Mack, SET MFP Design, LLC 2508 E Lodgepole Drive Gilbert, AZ 85298 Office (480) 505-9271 Fax (866) 430-6107 _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum CONFIDENTIAL AND PROPRIETARY: This email message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and confidential, nor is it, unless specifically stated, intended to be relied upon by any person or persons other than the individual or entity named above and no warranties or representations are made or intended to persons or entities not named above. 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