Well.. each mullioned section would mean vertical, since horizontal
are not allowed. This means the water has to run accross the glass,
not just down. I saw the width of it running down, regardless of
vertical mullions as the max horizontal spacing. I think a case for be
made for not needing a baffle; the 6' min. is for generic sprinklers,
not Special Sprinklers. If the spray went 90 degrees 3' sideways each
way, it seems the above would apply. Besides, a cold soldered head can
always un-solder if need be! That's part of what makes it special :)
Quoting "A.P.Silva" <silva...@shaw.ca>:
Thanks for sharing this information.
My question is this: Tyco data sheets state "locate window sprinklers within
each mullioned segment". Whereas it is not required for butt-jointed window
assemblies, provided the sprinkler spacing is maximum 8 feet. So clearly
they consider the mullion to be an obstruction. However, vertical sidewalls
can be installed upto 12 inches from the glazing. And sometimes the mullion
is not very deep. In my case it is about 3" wide and 1" deep (depth measured
perpendicular to the glass". Really, I don't know even if the two glass
panels are butt-jointed, but the seam is covered for aesthetics. I'm still
checking this out. In any case, I think a vertical sidewall 12" away centred
at the mullion/frame should be adequate. What do you think?
What bugs me is that Tyco data sheets don't take the depth of the mullions
to any consideration.
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Fairchild,
Jack
Sent: February 22, 2013 7:01 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window sprinklers
The ICC pulled the evaluation report based on the code change, but it should
be noted the onerous was always (and still is) on the building official to
accept the alternative method regardless of the evaluation report. See here
for a more detailed explanation of what occurred:
http://www.icc-es.org/Criteria_Development/1210-pre/3_AC385.pdf
Jack Fairchild
-----Original Message-----
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
AKS-Gmail-IMAP
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 8:16 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: Window sprinklers
From what I understand Tyco was not invited to the hearings for the proposed
changes and the rug was pulled out from under them in regard to the Tyco WS
sprinkler for 1hr and 2hr equivalency. This is a big deal that has yet to
hit the fan so to speak now that atrium like spaces seem to be latest
architectural rage.
I do believe vertical mullions are obstructions in the Tyco WS installation
requirements. The idea to center the WS on a vertical mullion is also nixed
in their installation requirement. Sprinklers at atrium glass is still a
permitted exception in IBC 404.6 and the wording, "The sprinkler system
shall be designed so that the entire surface of the glass is wet upon
activation of the sprinkler system without obstruction" , does not leave any
room for a challenge to a creative idea that gets water to bend around a
mullion. You'll have two sprinklers per side at that window pair and you'll
have a sprinkler baffle between them because they will be less than 6 feet
apart. Good luck convincing the architect the real ramifications of what
that will look like if they do not have a construction detail aptitude.
Allan Seidel
St. Louis, MO
On Feb 21, 2013, at 3:02 PM, bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com wrote:
I beg the Forum's pardon. I should know better than to post from home
(snow day in Kansas. I have a good memory, it's just short). I think
vertical mullions not being an obstruction makes sense though, otherwise the
listing would not distiguish?
Quoting Justin Reid <justinreid00...@gmail.com>:
IBC 2012, 703.4
Justin Reid
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 21, 2013, at 3:33 PM, "Cahill, Christopher" <ccah...@burnsmcd.com>
wrote:
Not to be picky but IBC 2013? Don't ya mean '12? What section are you
referring to that sprinkler rating equivalent changed? I can think of two
areas that had rating tied to sprinklers, atriums and substitute for 1 hour
construction. Did they change?
Chris Cahill, PE*
Senior Fire Protection Engineer, Aviation & Facilities Group Burns &
McDonnell
8201 Norman Center Drive
Bloomington, MN 55437
Phone: 952.656.3652
Fax: 952.229.2923
ccah...@burnsmcd.com
www.burnsmcd.com
Proud to be one of FORTUNE's 100 Best Companies to Work For
*Registered in: MN
-----Original Message-----
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 2:26 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window sprinklers
I think only horizontal mullions are considered an obstruction to
wetting the glass. Also, in IBC 2013, the sprinkler equivalent for Fire
Rated is no longer approved.
Quoting Rod DiBona <r...@rapidfireinc.com>:
Pretty sure you do. The mullion acts as a barrier. More than likely
if you present the dilemma to the A/E team they change the window.
Rod at Rapid
-----Original Message-----
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
A.P.Silva
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 11:07 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: Window sprinklers
I have two windows, each 2'-6" wide, separated by a vertical mullion.
Do I need two window sprinklers?
Tony
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