After all, is there not some carbon and hydrogen in steel?
> On Mar 22, 2014, at 12:08 AM, Brad Casterline <[email protected]> wrote: > > I just figured it out- fire resistive means you have sprayed a retardant on a > combustible and combustible means you have not > >> On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:57 PM, Brad Casterline <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> And what in the sam hell is the difference between fire resistive and non >> combustible ? the degree of thermal inertia? >> >>> On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:26 PM, Brad Casterline <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> I know Ron, it just never occurred to me the cut-off would be based on >>> application rate, but it makes sense and if that rate is 1 quart/ 24 hours >>> and we go to all the trouble to make a special booth we might as well put >>> some sprinklers in and ramp it up to a gallon or two, even if it's just >>> little parts >>> >>>> On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:13 PM, "rongreenman ." <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Bruce, The valve is for shutting down the booth without shutting down the >>>> building, the booth likely to require frequent maintenance. >>>> >>>> Brad, Don't get stuck with a MAACO image in your head. Every spray booth >>>> isn't necessarily for painting big things like cars. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 9:03 PM, Brad Casterline >>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Has anyone thought about what Ron G said about up to 1 quart a day? I >>>>> tried to picture why that could not be done with a brush--- off in a >>>>> corner >>>>> somewhere but I guess with a fine spray it is one of those 'perception' >>>>> type tests. >>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 21, 2014, at 10:32 PM, "Steve Leyton" >>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Actually, that's not correct. Pre-engineered spray application booths >>>>> can widely be specified and ordered in both one- and two hour fire >>>>> resistive construction. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone >>>>>> >>>>>> -------- Original message -------- >>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>> Date:03/21/2014 6:37 PM (GMT-08:00) >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Subject: Re: Spray Booth >>>>>> >>>>>> Booths are not fire resistive, only non-combustible. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've always thought the valve was intended to allow easy changing of >>>>> loaded heads, while maintaining coverage. This may have been in standards >>>>> so long most likely person doing work was maintenance person. >>>>>> >>>>>> Any time something doesn't fit pattern, communicating location of shut >>>>> off valve to future users might be helpful. Sign? >>>>>> >>>>>> bv >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Brad Casterline" <[email protected]> >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 7:32:16 AM >>>>>> Subject: RE: Spray Booth >>>>>> >>>>>> Ya nevermind Ron-- you guys were ignoring me and I overreacted. >>>>>> I was thinking that QR heads would help- I know they are not allowed for >>>>> EH >>>>>> but I think the intent of that is to avoid 40 heads being open over here >>>>>> when the fire is now over there. Especially if the entire booth is >>>>> calc'd to >>>>>> be operating. >>>>>> Do you happen to know what the cut-off is for sprinklers being required >>>>> or >>>>>> not. If booths contain the fire, why waste the money, if the >>>>> booth/equipment >>>>>> will likely be lost? >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: rongreenman . [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 9:19 AM >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Subject: Re: Spray Booth >>>>>> >>>>>> Good luck catching what, Brad? The booth contains the fire to the volume >>>>> of >>>>>> the booth and the system controls the fire within that area. Many spray >>>>>> booths don't require protection at all. I don't think Bob even suggested >>>>>> needing a higher degree of protection. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 9:56 PM, Brad Casterline >>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ouch! EH, 100+ ft bulk, dry capacity of !?!?. Good luck catching an >>>>> Ultra >>>>>>> Fast Fire Bob. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mar 12, 2014, at 11:04 PM, "rongreenman ." <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think more convenient near the booth, even a better location, but I >>>>>>> think >>>>>>>> anywhere that isolates it is OK. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Bob <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Stepped out for dinner and a movie. Yes, booth only. We are adding a >>>>>>> new >>>>>>>>> valve at the riser room to feed this. I thought that only one valve >>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>> be required, but I wasn't sure if the shutoff had to be in close >>>>>>> proximity >>>>>>>>> to the booth. The riser is about 110' away. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank You, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bob Knight, CET III >>>>>>>>> 208-318-3057 >>>>>>>>> www.Firebyknight.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>> rongreenman . >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:01 PM >>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Spray Booth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Does the dry system supply the booth only? If so the riser room would >>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> fine. If part of a system covering some other space then it needs to >>>>> be >>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>> floor level on the line to the booth. At the booth is obviously the >>>>>> most >>>>>>>>> likely place in the latter case. The purpose of the valve is to shut >>>>>>> down >>>>>>>>> the booth stuff independently of the rest of the system. In general >>>>>>> spray >>>>>>>>> booths need sprinklers changed at a greater frequency than most other >>>>>>>>> locations. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Brad Casterline >>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Oh! Wet systems that were auxiliary is what you said, sorry. >>>>>>>>>> Dry for paint booths strike me as odd though. Is this due to concern >>>>>>>>>> to exposure to the outside because of the exhaust? >>>>>>>>>> At any rate, I think 'separate' means in addition to, right there by >>>>>>>>>> the booth door-- similar to a little, accessible control valve for >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> 1 or 2 heads in an elevator machine room. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 12, 2014, at 7:17 PM, "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Not auxiliary from the overhead, a separate riser back at the riser >>>>>>>>> room. >>>>>>>>>>> Separate from, as in, independent of the overhead piping. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank You, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Bob Knight, CET III >>>>>>>>>>> 208-318-3057 >>>>>>>>>>> www.Firebyknight.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf >>>>> Of >>>>>>>>>> Brad >>>>>>>>>>> Casterline >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 6:09 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Spray Booth >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like kind of a mish-mash here Bob. Auxiliary dry from the >>>>>>>>>> overhead? >>>>>>>>>>> The overhead is wet? Why is that? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:19 PM, "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> When NFPA 13 / 33 requires "The sprinkler system shall be >>>>>>>>>>>> controlled by a separate, listed indicating valve, operable from >>>>>>> floor >>>>>>>>> level" >>>>>>>>>>>> does this mean that a valve is to be installed at the booth itself, >>>>>>>>>>>> or is it ok to have the valve only in the riser room. This will be >>>>>>>>>>>> a separate dry system from the overhead piping. So, am I needing >>>>>>>>>>>> two valves, one in riser room and one at the booth, or just the one >>>>>>>>>>>> in the riser room? I think that every other booth that I have done >>>>>>>>>>>> have been >>>>>>>>>> wet >>>>>>>>>>> systems that were auxiliary. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank You, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Bob Knight, CET III >>>>>>>>>>>> 208-318-3057 >>>>>>>>>>>> www.Firebyknight.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firespri >>>>>>>>>>>> nkl >>>>>>>>>>>> er.org >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >>>>>>>>>> er.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >>>>>>>>>> er.org _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >>>>>>>>>> er.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Ron Greenman >>>>>>>>> Instructor >>>>>>>>> Fire Protection Engineering Technology >>>>>>>>> Bates Technical College >>>>>>>>> 1101 So. Yakima Ave. >>>>>>>>> Tacoma, WA 98405 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 253.680.7346 >>>>>>>>> 253.576.9700 (cell) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Member: >>>>>>>>> ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis >>>>>>> Bacon, >>>>>>>>> essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, >>>>>>>>> inventor and engineer (1876-1958) >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Ron Greenman >>>>>>>> Instructor >>>>>>>> Fire Protection Engineering Technology >>>>>>>> Bates Technical College >>>>>>>> 1101 So. Yakima Ave. >>>>>>>> Tacoma, WA 98405 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 253.680.7346 >>>>>>>> 253.576.9700 (cell) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Member: >>>>>>>> ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis >>>>>>> Bacon, >>>>>>>> essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, >>>>>>>> inventor and engineer (1876-1958) >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Ron Greenman >>>>>> Instructor >>>>>> Fire Protection Engineering Technology >>>>>> Bates Technical College >>>>>> 1101 So. Yakima Ave. >>>>>> Tacoma, WA 98405 >>>>>> >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ >>>>>> >>>>>> 253.680.7346 >>>>>> 253.576.9700 (cell) >>>>>> >>>>>> Member: >>>>>> ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC >>>>>> >>>>>> They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis >>>>> Bacon, >>>>>> essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) >>>>>> >>>>>> A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, >>>>>> inventor and engineer (1876-1958) >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ron Greenman >>>> Instructor >>>> Fire Protection Engineering Technology >>>> Bates Technical College >>>> 1101 So. Yakima Ave. >>>> Tacoma, WA 98405 >>>> >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ >>>> >>>> 253.680.7346 >>>> 253.576.9700 (cell) >>>> >>>> Member: >>>> ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC >>>> >>>> They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, >>>> essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) >>>> >>>> A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, >>>> inventor and engineer (1876-1958) >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
