For sprinkler purposes though, regarding steel, all the way from the very slow burning process of rust up to heating it to -1200F, we can call it non-comb
> On Mar 22, 2014, at 12:16 AM, Brad Casterline <[email protected]> wrote: > > After all, is there not some carbon and hydrogen in steel? > >> On Mar 22, 2014, at 12:08 AM, Brad Casterline <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> I just figured it out- fire resistive means you have sprayed a retardant on >> a combustible and combustible means you have not >> >>> On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:57 PM, Brad Casterline <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> And what in the sam hell is the difference between fire resistive and non >>> combustible ? the degree of thermal inertia? >>> >>>> On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:26 PM, Brad Casterline <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I know Ron, it just never occurred to me the cut-off would be based on >>>> application rate, but it makes sense and if that rate is 1 quart/ 24 hours >>>> and we go to all the trouble to make a special booth we might as well put >>>> some sprinklers in and ramp it up to a gallon or two, even if it's just >>>> little parts >>>> >>>>> On Mar 21, 2014, at 11:13 PM, "rongreenman ." <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Bruce, The valve is for shutting down the booth without shutting down the >>>>> building, the booth likely to require frequent maintenance. >>>>> >>>>> Brad, Don't get stuck with a MAACO image in your head. Every spray booth >>>>> isn't necessarily for painting big things like cars. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 9:03 PM, Brad Casterline >>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Has anyone thought about what Ron G said about up to 1 quart a day? I >>>>>> tried to picture why that could not be done with a brush--- off in a >>>>>> corner >>>>>> somewhere but I guess with a fine spray it is one of those 'perception' >>>>>> type tests. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mar 21, 2014, at 10:32 PM, "Steve Leyton" >>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Actually, that's not correct. Pre-engineered spray application booths >>>>>> can widely be specified and ordered in both one- and two hour fire >>>>>> resistive construction. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------- Original message -------- >>>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>> Date:03/21/2014 6:37 PM (GMT-08:00) >>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Spray Booth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Booths are not fire resistive, only non-combustible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've always thought the valve was intended to allow easy changing of >>>>>> loaded heads, while maintaining coverage. This may have been in standards >>>>>> so long most likely person doing work was maintenance person. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any time something doesn't fit pattern, communicating location of shut >>>>>> off valve to future users might be helpful. Sign? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> bv >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Brad Casterline" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 7:32:16 AM >>>>>>> Subject: RE: Spray Booth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ya nevermind Ron-- you guys were ignoring me and I overreacted. >>>>>>> I was thinking that QR heads would help- I know they are not allowed for >>>>>> EH >>>>>>> but I think the intent of that is to avoid 40 heads being open over here >>>>>>> when the fire is now over there. Especially if the entire booth is >>>>>> calc'd to >>>>>>> be operating. >>>>>>> Do you happen to know what the cut-off is for sprinklers being required >>>>>> or >>>>>>> not. If booths contain the fire, why waste the money, if the >>>>>> booth/equipment >>>>>>> will likely be lost? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: rongreenman . [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 9:19 AM >>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Spray Booth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Good luck catching what, Brad? The booth contains the fire to the volume >>>>>> of >>>>>>> the booth and the system controls the fire within that area. Many spray >>>>>>> booths don't require protection at all. I don't think Bob even suggested >>>>>>> needing a higher degree of protection. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 9:56 PM, Brad Casterline >>>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ouch! EH, 100+ ft bulk, dry capacity of !?!?. Good luck catching an >>>>>> Ultra >>>>>>>> Fast Fire Bob. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mar 12, 2014, at 11:04 PM, "rongreenman ." <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think more convenient near the booth, even a better location, but I >>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>> anywhere that isolates it is OK. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Bob <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Stepped out for dinner and a movie. Yes, booth only. We are adding a >>>>>>>> new >>>>>>>>>> valve at the riser room to feed this. I thought that only one valve >>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>> be required, but I wasn't sure if the shutoff had to be in close >>>>>>>> proximity >>>>>>>>>> to the booth. The riser is about 110' away. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thank You, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Bob Knight, CET III >>>>>>>>>> 208-318-3057 >>>>>>>>>> www.Firebyknight.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>>> rongreenman . >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:01 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Spray Booth >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does the dry system supply the booth only? If so the riser room would >>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> fine. If part of a system covering some other space then it needs to >>>>>> be >>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>> floor level on the line to the booth. At the booth is obviously the >>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>>> likely place in the latter case. The purpose of the valve is to shut >>>>>>>> down >>>>>>>>>> the booth stuff independently of the rest of the system. In general >>>>>>>> spray >>>>>>>>>> booths need sprinklers changed at a greater frequency than most other >>>>>>>>>> locations. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Brad Casterline >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Oh! Wet systems that were auxiliary is what you said, sorry. >>>>>>>>>>> Dry for paint booths strike me as odd though. Is this due to concern >>>>>>>>>>> to exposure to the outside because of the exhaust? >>>>>>>>>>> At any rate, I think 'separate' means in addition to, right there by >>>>>>>>>>> the booth door-- similar to a little, accessible control valve for >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> 1 or 2 heads in an elevator machine room. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 12, 2014, at 7:17 PM, "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Not auxiliary from the overhead, a separate riser back at the riser >>>>>>>>>> room. >>>>>>>>>>>> Separate from, as in, independent of the overhead piping. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank You, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Bob Knight, CET III >>>>>>>>>>>> 208-318-3057 >>>>>>>>>>>> www.Firebyknight.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf >>>>>> Of >>>>>>>>>>> Brad >>>>>>>>>>>> Casterline >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 6:09 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Spray Booth >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like kind of a mish-mash here Bob. Auxiliary dry from the >>>>>>>>>>> overhead? >>>>>>>>>>>> The overhead is wet? Why is that? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 12, 2014, at 5:19 PM, "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> When NFPA 13 / 33 requires "The sprinkler system shall be >>>>>>>>>>>>> controlled by a separate, listed indicating valve, operable from >>>>>>>> floor >>>>>>>>>> level" >>>>>>>>>>>>> does this mean that a valve is to be installed at the booth >>>>>>>>>>>>> itself, >>>>>>>>>>>>> or is it ok to have the valve only in the riser room. This will be >>>>>>>>>>>>> a separate dry system from the overhead piping. So, am I needing >>>>>>>>>>>>> two valves, one in riser room and one at the booth, or just the >>>>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>>> in the riser room? I think that every other booth that I have done >>>>>>>>>>>>> have been >>>>>>>>>>> wet >>>>>>>>>>>> systems that were auxiliary. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank You, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bob Knight, CET III >>>>>>>>>>>>> 208-318-3057 >>>>>>>>>>>>> www.Firebyknight.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firespri >>>>>>>>>>>>> nkl >>>>>>>>>>>>> er.org >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >>>>>>>>>>> er.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >>>>>>>>>>> er.org _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >>>>>>>>>>> er.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Ron Greenman >>>>>>>>>> Instructor >>>>>>>>>> Fire Protection Engineering Technology >>>>>>>>>> Bates Technical College >>>>>>>>>> 1101 So. Yakima Ave. >>>>>>>>>> Tacoma, WA 98405 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 253.680.7346 >>>>>>>>>> 253.576.9700 (cell) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Member: >>>>>>>>>> ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis >>>>>>>> Bacon, >>>>>>>>>> essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. >>>>>>>>>> Kettering, >>>>>>>>>> inventor and engineer (1876-1958) >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Ron Greenman >>>>>>>>> Instructor >>>>>>>>> Fire Protection Engineering Technology >>>>>>>>> Bates Technical College >>>>>>>>> 1101 So. Yakima Ave. >>>>>>>>> Tacoma, WA 98405 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 253.680.7346 >>>>>>>>> 253.576.9700 (cell) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Member: >>>>>>>>> ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis >>>>>>>> Bacon, >>>>>>>>> essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, >>>>>>>>> inventor and engineer (1876-1958) >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Ron Greenman >>>>>>> Instructor >>>>>>> Fire Protection Engineering Technology >>>>>>> Bates Technical College >>>>>>> 1101 So. Yakima Ave. >>>>>>> Tacoma, WA 98405 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 253.680.7346 >>>>>>> 253.576.9700 (cell) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Member: >>>>>>> ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC >>>>>>> >>>>>>> They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis >>>>>> Bacon, >>>>>>> essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, >>>>>>> inventor and engineer (1876-1958) >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Ron Greenman >>>>> Instructor >>>>> Fire Protection Engineering Technology >>>>> Bates Technical College >>>>> 1101 So. Yakima Ave. >>>>> Tacoma, WA 98405 >>>>> >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ >>>>> >>>>> 253.680.7346 >>>>> 253.576.9700 (cell) >>>>> >>>>> Member: >>>>> ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC >>>>> >>>>> They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis >>>>> Bacon, >>>>> essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) >>>>> >>>>> A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, >>>>> inventor and engineer (1876-1958) >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
